BJU Releases Music Philosophy
Joe, I appreciate your emphasis on mission work and that we really are missionaries more than ever. I’ve also listened to you a few times on SermonAudio and been blessed by it.
I’m in a spot that is it’s own mission field for different reasons. It has been a center of alcohol and drug abuse and immorality since befor Prohibition times, and is proud of it. The area boasts of being in the top 10 in the nation for strip clubs per capita, and has become an economically depressed pit of sin.
I agree with you in a sense, but don’t in another. Part of why BJU is having difficulties is the attack of the far right (KJVO, etc.) that sees using SGM music, even tastefully done, as “compromise”. I like better what BJU is doing in being more forthright earlier in the process than NIU. Seems to me that a lot of the NIU problem is as much how it was done as what was done. Hopefully BJU can be more “up front” and stay on track.
[Pastor Joe Roof]I believe it is fine that BJU saw a need to present this statement. But my concern is that this music issue is being elevated as the top concern in the BJU fundamentalists circles. Certainly, as we follow the Lord, concerns will arise out of differences that require our prayers, discussions over differences, the seeking of ways to correct one another where needed and forebear one another in love where needed. But if our main concern is whether a church in plunking an organ or picking a guitar, whe are going to miss the issues that need to be much more important to us.
I just spoke at a missions conference this weekend and shared these info points about where God has placed me to serve. Can I request that we consider putting at least as much passion in fuguring out how to do something about these needs as we do in discussing music?
7 billion people in the world today.
No more than 20 percent know Christ as Savior.We are in the most lost region of America - the Northeast.
66 Million people living in CT,ME, MA, NJ, NH, NY, PA, RI, and VT.
Estimated that 51 million of these are without Christ. That is 82%.In NY, NJ, CT, and MA, there are 27 million lost people who speak over 800 languages
In NY State there are 19,541,453 people. Of that, 560,678 claim to be evangelical. That means that 97 percent are lost.
Albany – one of the top 13 most unreached places in America.On April 2, 2013, the Albany Times Union announced that Capital Region is one of the least religious places in America according to a recent Gallup poll.
Barna is reporting that the Capital Region of New York State is the most post-Christian place in America. His chart shows that New York State is basicaly the most post-Christian state in the Union.
Music policy is the “shiny thing” that distracts from real (regional) accreditation
Jim,
I know you are very informed. I assume you know that BJU applied for regional accreditation one year ago and is working feverishly to fulfill all the demands.
Pastor Mike Harding
[Mike Harding]Jim,
I know you are very informed. I assume you know that BJU applied for regional accreditation one year ago and is working feverishly to fulfill all the demands.
Yes … good reminder … and a good thing
[Mike Harding]Jim,
I know you are very informed. I assume you know that BJU applied for regional accreditation one year ago and is working feverishly to fulfill all the demands.
By reviewing SACS website (see: database for all Member, Candidate, and Applicant Colleges and Universities - Updated Daily) you will see that BJU has yet to even apply for accreditation. That is hardly what I call working feverishly.
[ejohansen]By reviewing SACS website (see: database for all Member, Candidate, and Applicant Colleges and Universities - Updated Daily) you will see that BJU has yet to even apply for accreditation. That is hardly what I call working feverishly.
Actually, BJU was working on this when I was a grad assistant there. So while I don’t know what happened since then, I do know that it’s a priority based on the internal discussions that I got to be privy to, which wasn’t much. And I think it’s TRACS, not SACS.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Albeit useless, they are currently TRACS accredited. SACS is the regional accreditation body which is the legitimate agency.
The application process for SACS takes several years. Once the application has been received, several more years are needed for approval. Altogether a 5 to 7 year process. Yes, they are working feverishly. It is a mountain of work for an institution the size and scope of BJU.
Pastor Mike Harding
[Mike Harding]The application process for SACS takes several years. Once the application has been received, several more years are needed for approval. Altogether a 5 to 7 year process. Yes, they are working feverishly. It is a mountain of work for an institution the size and scope of BJU.
APPLICANT INSTITUTIONS
Institution, City, State Control Level Degrees
21
The American University of Athens in Greece, Montgomery, AL …………… Private, For-Profit VI B M D
The Art Institute of Fort Lauderdale, Fort Lauderdale, FL ……………………… Private, For-profit II A B
Atlanta’s John Marshall Law School, Atlanta, GA ………………………………… Private, For-Profit V D
Dallas Christian College, Dallas, TX ……………………………………………………. Private, Not-for-Profit II A B
H. Councill Trenholm State Technical College, Montgomery, AL …………… Public I A
Jose Maria Vargas University, Pembroke Pines, FL ……………………………… Private, For-Profit III A B M
North American College, Houston, TX …………………………………………………. Private, Not-For-Profit II B
Northeast Lakeview College, Universal City, TX …………………………………… Public I A
Oconee Fall Line Techical College, Sandersville, GA ……………………………. Public I A
Ogeechee Technical College, Statesboro, GA ……………………………………… Public I X
Qatar University, Doha ………………………………………………………………………. Public V B M D
Southern University Law Center, Baton Rouge, LA ………………………………. Public V D
Texas A&M University-Central Texas, Killeen, TX ………………………………… Public IV B M ES
Texas A&M University-San Antonio, San AntonioTX ……………………………. Public III B M
Universidad Anahuac - Mexico Norte, Col. Lomas Anahuac, ………………… Private, Not-For-Profit VI A B M ES D
Universidad San Ignacio de Loyola, Lima, Peru …………………………………… Private, For-Profit III B M
University of North Texas at Dallas, Dallas, TX ……………………………………. Public III B M
The University of Texas Health Science Center at Tyler, Tyler, TX ……….. Public III X
I’m not seeing BJU as having even applied so to say they are “working feverishly” on it may be a little premature.
My understanding that just getting ready to complete the SACS application is loads of work (and probably institutional changes also). All the faculty including me had work to do for the TRACS application. Even though I left before they starting working on the SACS application, I would guess that it is more work than TRACS.
Brother Hansen,
As an active board member of the institution, they are working tirelessly on this project. The process is very involved and complicated. Their goal is to have the entire project completed in 5 years. Please call any of the VP’s or write them perhaps and they will give you an update on their status.
Pastor Mike Harding
[Mike Harding]Jim,
I know you are very informed. I assume you know that BJU applied for regional accreditation one year ago and is working feverishly to fulfill all the demands.
”BJU applied for regional accreditation one year ago” is different from BJU is working on applying for regional accreditation.
Brother Hanson,
Fair enough!
Pastor Mike Harding
[Don Johnson][dmyers]Also, if my understanding of this policy is correct, BJU just cut the legs out from under Matt Olson’s and NIU’s critics on this issue. Apparently too late to help Olson.
I don’t quite follow this… as a critic of Matt and NIU, my perception is that the BJU statement contradicts the recent NIU changes. So would you care to elaborate?
I thought I was pretty clear; not sure I know how to make it clearer without essentially repeating myself. As I said in my first comment, “even more striking to me is the repeated acknowledgment that ‘other institutions, congregations and individuals may apply these principles differently than BJU will apply them based upon their own efforts to reflect scriptural principles within their respective contexts and in keeping with their unique institutional missions.’ The recognition that the BJU way is not the only way and that others may have different applications while still making ‘efforts to reflect scriptural principles’ is huge. Gone (apparently) is the nose in the air attitude and the dismissal of those who make different applications as ‘worldly.’”
At the risk of mere repetition, I see the BJU statement (with the glaring and incongruous exception of the “defin[ing] rock music” paragraph) as consistent with what I understand to be Matt Olson’s and NIU’s position. Both acknowledge that they are operating at the level of scriptural principles, not scriptural applications. As a consequence, both acknowledge that others who disagree with their particular applications may still be sincere in “their own efforts to reflect scriptural principles.” In other words, both institutions appear to me to acknowledge that (a) you can in good faith agree with and/or apply everything in the BJU statement but arrive at NIU’s applications rather than BJU’s, and (b) if you do so, you are not worldly, compromising, conservative evangelical, neo-evangelical, liberal, or otherwise non-fundamentalist.
If this isn’t the meaning of BJU’s repeated qualifications of the limits of its policy, then I don’t know what those qualifications mean.
[Mike Harding]Dmyers,
At this point none of us know why the NIU board fired Matt. Matt has been outspoken about his changes with the full knowledge of the board. It may not be about the music at all. It could be about speakers in chapel and Bible class such as Jason Janz, Guy Conn, Bruce Ware. It could be that they didn’t like the way he managed the changes. It could be the rapid decline of students in the school over the last five years. We don’t know and apparently Matt doesn’t understand why he was fired. I have known Matt for almost 40 years. I feel badly for him personally. At the same time, if Matt wants to operate in another circle, that is his choice at this point in his life. Matt, with his skills in preaching and extensive experience, should be able to find a ministry in the near future. Northland has been a sister institution with BJU for about 30 years, similar in doctrine and philosophy. I would like to see NIU adopt a similar statement on music and worship that BJU did. Maybe they already have and simply need to blow the dust off it.
Mike: I was not assuming any particular reason why Olson resigned or was fired. I was pointing out to those who specifically criticized Olson’s recent statement about not fighting about music that BJU’s policy says essentially the same thing when it says that “other institutions, congregations and individuals may apply these principles differently than BJU will apply them based upon their own efforts to reflect scriptural principles.”
You describe Matt as “want[ing] to operate in another circle.” Based on the BJU policy, it appears that you would also have to say that BJU wants to operate in another circle.
As I read the BJU policy, NIU and BJU remain “sister institution[s]… , similar in doctrine and philosophy,” and NIU already has “adopt[ed] a similar statement on worship and music that BJU did,” in practice if not on paper.
Discussion