At Cedarville, Dance Restrictions Lifted but not Completely
Details at http://cedars.cedarville.edu/news/dance-restrictions-lifted-but-not-com… ]Cedars , the campus news service at Cedarville University “The changes remove restrictions against students attending or organizing dances on or off campus and against dances being sponsored on campus or at University-sponsored events. But the only practical change for students as of now is that they are allowed to dance off campus as long as they avoid sexually provocative dance, unhealthy environments like bars and clubs, and dancing to inappropriate lyrics, Ruby said.”
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For all the blithe dismissals of slipperly slope arguments, people make them for a reason. Rules about drinking will likely be next to go. It saddens me to see Cedarville begin the fiial stages of this journey…but it doesn’t surprise me a bit.
You have dancing at one school. You have surfing at another one at the indoor water park. What’s next? 8-)
So here you are, gleefully writhing to the beat—or, for us boomers, groovin’ to the tunes—of a song you never heard before when, all of a sudden, you realize the lyrics are inappropriate! “Oh no!” you yell to your partner over the din, “I’ve gotta stop dancing to this song! The lyrics are inappropriate! I’ll have to sit this one out or else!” Of course, you can go sit on the sidelines and listen to the song until it’s over…just can’t groove to it.
In the words of that infamous bear, “Oh help and bother!”
In the words of that infamous bear, “Oh help and bother!”
How many of our churches have a specific position on dancing? Say in the doctrinal statement or covenant.
My church doesn’t. We seem to be able to live without that rule
My church doesn’t. We seem to be able to live without that rule
[Jim Peet] How many of our churches have a specific position on dancing? Say in the doctrinal statement or covenant.A church doesn’t fulfill quite the same role as a college might. There are some similarities with a church, but also some with a workplace, and some with a family structure. A church would not have rigid rules on attendance for its members that a college would (not that there aren’t expectations in that area, but they aren’t handled the same way as they might be with work or college). A church doesn’t have to be quite as rigid in setting parameters to keep members of the opposite sex in separate living quarters like a school does.
My church doesn’t. We seem to be able to live without that rule
Fourth Baptist may not have an explicit rule on dancing. I would imagine, however, that Fourth Baptist Christian School might have something to say about it (though I might be wrong), and that church members would not be happy if that rule were altered. I imagine that at the church level, even, that if it were known that Roy Beacham and Jim McLeish had planned a “Dancing With The Stars” knock-off activity for the Golden Agers, there might be a few repercussions…
I didn’t find this story surprising. I did find it disappointing, though. While we must guard against dogmatism on extra-biblical matters, to be sure, there is room to communicate institutional expectations based on application of Biblical principles. An institutional rule prohibiting unmarried college students from dancing may theoretically prevent some behaviors that are perfectly acceptable for a believer, just like having separate mens and ladies dorms might prevent a brother from visiting his sister’s apartment. However, with the majority of couples-type dancing that draws the interest of college students today, there is very little that is beneficial to young men or women whose intent is to be chaste. I think such a rule at a college like this is a good idea. I wouldn’t even be opposed to such expectations being clearly communicated in a church’s teaching, myself.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
The real crime is that now we’ll have Baptist young people who will try to dance. This is most sad because Baptist in general regardless of age - can’t dance. I’m not going to argue here the point of if they should or should not…..my point here is that they simply can’t. Something in the DNA code of especially White Baptist types make it hard for us to dance. Not sure what’s up with that! We mix up the 1 and the 3 with the 2 and the 4, and of course this messes with the footing of any potential “jig.” If in heaven we do get to dance like King David, the very good news is that we’ll have new feet that will allow us the pleasure!
Straight Ahead…..1-2-3; 1-2-3; 1-2-3! :)
jt
Straight Ahead…..1-2-3; 1-2-3; 1-2-3! :)
jt
Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;
I’m not for the kind of dancing that normally goes on at clubs ect… except for between married people I guess? Is a Scottish sword dance or a hillbilly jig forbidden in the same we ought not be gettin’ lo? All forms and contexts for dancing are not created equal. What about dancing with joy found in the Bible that Joel mentions? It seems like all the fundamentalist talk since the dawn of the movement largely ignored WHY such dancing might be wrong, at least after a few generations. Sooner or later, if a rule book says “no dancing” in an un-nuanced way, the rule will be mocked on any fundamentalist campus for good reason. We should try really hard not to have strict prohibitions on things that the Bible tells us to do in praise (except for the playing of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackbut] sackbuts , please can we get rid of those? :-)
Sometimes rules like this flatten out very different activities in to categories so narrowly, that moral judgments are confused. I’m not sure that this is how I would write it, but it does seem like there should be room for a categorical difference between going to a community barn dance and going to da clubs.
Sometimes rules like this flatten out very different activities in to categories so narrowly, that moral judgments are confused. I’m not sure that this is how I would write it, but it does seem like there should be room for a categorical difference between going to a community barn dance and going to da clubs.
become Presbyterians! Seriously, one of our churches in town hosts an English https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Contra_dance] contra dancing group. Great people, lot’s of fun. I agree with Joel, though, Baptists or ex-Baptists dancing are a danger to the whole of society.
My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com
Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin
Kevin Bacon!
Personally, I think the only thing a college can reasonably expect to control is conduct on campus, as far as these kinds of activities go. Monitoring off campus conduct accurately and fairly is an impossible task, IMO.
Personally, I think the only thing a college can reasonably expect to control is conduct on campus, as far as these kinds of activities go. Monitoring off campus conduct accurately and fairly is an impossible task, IMO.
Hey Greg,
You’re right and I get that. I posted just before I went to bed and I as I went to sleep I knew my response was kind of flippant
Not defending dancing (although I have some views on this), Cedarville doesn’t purport to be a fundamentalist school. So I wouldn’t expect them to have rules on the traditional fundamentalist taboos. (and I am OK with that)
The value of a Cedarville. It is a real Christian University. It has a plethora of majors ( http://www.cedarville.edu/Admissions/Majors.aspx] link ) and high academic standards.
I personally know many Cedarville grads and even some recent ones. One very fine young adult from our church graduated with a degree in finance. And he was well prepared for a career.
Not purposefully bashing the international university of the north, but while I regard it a good Bible college I just don’t get the self-appellation of “university” (there’s not much “universal” http://ni.edu/schools/nbbc/academics/#tabs-1] about this )
My conclusion:
You’re right and I get that. I posted just before I went to bed and I as I went to sleep I knew my response was kind of flippant
Not defending dancing (although I have some views on this), Cedarville doesn’t purport to be a fundamentalist school. So I wouldn’t expect them to have rules on the traditional fundamentalist taboos. (and I am OK with that)
The value of a Cedarville. It is a real Christian University. It has a plethora of majors ( http://www.cedarville.edu/Admissions/Majors.aspx] link ) and high academic standards.
I personally know many Cedarville grads and even some recent ones. One very fine young adult from our church graduated with a degree in finance. And he was well prepared for a career.
Not purposefully bashing the international university of the north, but while I regard it a good Bible college I just don’t get the self-appellation of “university” (there’s not much “universal” http://ni.edu/schools/nbbc/academics/#tabs-1] about this )
My conclusion:
- It doesn’t disappoint me that it permits dance (b/c it is not a fundamentalist school)
- I value Cedarville as a education option for Christian young people
- And I think it is a solid school academically
When you look at a policy change, you really have to consider what the status quo is and then ask why the change? Why does any institution of higher learning need dancing? If they got along OK for all these years without it, why do they need it now?
It’s a very different question from “Why should a school that’s never had a rule continue to not have a rule”?
So… how many students would not attend the school because of its dancing rules? So now the student body’s going to greatly improve since these students are now going to attend? Or the ones already there are going to be much more focused and serious learners now without the rule? Doesn’t seem like there’s a big win here from an educational point of view. Can’t really find a win from any point of view, but maybe I just lack imagination.
It’s a very different question from “Why should a school that’s never had a rule continue to not have a rule”?
So… how many students would not attend the school because of its dancing rules? So now the student body’s going to greatly improve since these students are now going to attend? Or the ones already there are going to be much more focused and serious learners now without the rule? Doesn’t seem like there’s a big win here from an educational point of view. Can’t really find a win from any point of view, but maybe I just lack imagination.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[Aaron Blumer] Can’t really find a win from any point of view, but maybe I just lack imagination.One possible reason I could suggest is that the rule may be flaunted so much, and the administration lacks the ability or will to police such events off campus that they are relaxing the rule to meet current practice. Maybe they don’t want to discipline the large group of people who may be doing a more decent form of dancing?
[Aaron Blumer] When you look at a policy change, you really have to consider what the status quo is and then ask why the change? Why does any institution of higher learning need dancing? If they got along OK for all these years without it, why do they need it now?
It’s a very different question from “Why should a school that’s never had a rule continue to not have a rule”?
I see it much the same as states that get rid of laws such as not walking through a hotel lobby with your spurs on (Arizona). There’s just no point in keeping such a rule on the books.
There was a time when rules about movies and dancing were all the rage in Christian colleges, but it was just words on paper. They can’t enforce those rules effectively. What is really hilarious when professors could have a VCR and rent from Blockbuster, or have HBO piped into their homes, but the student body couldn’t attend a movie theater? How silly is that? Do rules against dancing include the Hokey Pokey? After all, the actions include ‘shaking it all about’! We just can’t be havin’ that.
This all brings back fond memories of getting demerits for not tying my tennis shoes.
I can’t imagine anyone deciding on a college based on their rules about dancing, but then I don’t know anyone personally who is that shallow. I also think there is a sort of self-selection process that takes place in college- those that are serious about academics do the work and actually graduate, and those who use college to get away from mom and dad and party do so until their parents pull the financial plug.
I will say that I understand the desire of a college to create and sustain a serious academic and spiritually beneficial atmosphere… but that’s applicable and enforceable only to the campus itself, IMO.
Granted, it’s a Mormon school, but Brandon Davies of BYU made the news recently because he violated the school’s honor code and was physically intimate with his girlfriend.
An institution can similarly have such a code in place without having to have campus police roaming around everywhere. Consider, for example, that an institution might have a similar rule on alcohol use. Scratch that- there are even laws on the books about minors and alcohol that are difficult to consistently enforce. The answer isn’t to drop the drinking age.
The issue here isn’t enforcement as much as it is reflective of changing standards and expectations of how a Christian ought to conduct himself in today’s culture. Cedarville has been on this track for a while (my wife attended Cedarville for a year in 1993-94, and there were indicators then), but inasmuch as that is reflective of its students and constituent churches, it’s a disappointing development, in my estimation.
An institution can similarly have such a code in place without having to have campus police roaming around everywhere. Consider, for example, that an institution might have a similar rule on alcohol use. Scratch that- there are even laws on the books about minors and alcohol that are difficult to consistently enforce. The answer isn’t to drop the drinking age.
The issue here isn’t enforcement as much as it is reflective of changing standards and expectations of how a Christian ought to conduct himself in today’s culture. Cedarville has been on this track for a while (my wife attended Cedarville for a year in 1993-94, and there were indicators then), but inasmuch as that is reflective of its students and constituent churches, it’s a disappointing development, in my estimation.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
I understand that we don’t just drop laws that are difficult to enforce, but enforcement depends on a definition of the behavior being controlled. It is clear that 1) a person under 21 2)who drinks an alcoholic beverage- has broken the law. Unless it’s Nyquil.
But dancing? What kind of dancing? To what kind of music? What are ‘objectionable lyrics’? If you can’t draw the lines, how do you know who has crossed them?
I agree that the loosening of moral boundaries is never a good thing, but those boundaries are supposed to be built and reinforced by parents and the local church, IMO. College is not the place for everyone to suddenly get a moral compass. That horse is long out of the corral.
But dancing? What kind of dancing? To what kind of music? What are ‘objectionable lyrics’? If you can’t draw the lines, how do you know who has crossed them?
I agree that the loosening of moral boundaries is never a good thing, but those boundaries are supposed to be built and reinforced by parents and the local church, IMO. College is not the place for everyone to suddenly get a moral compass. That horse is long out of the corral.
Discussion