An Examination of Sovereign Grace Ministries and Getty-Townend For Use in Fundamental Christian Churches (1)

I appreciate the link. I’d like to respond to a question offered in the thread I started announcing this article:

I’m just curious…did Doug give permission for that post?

If you will go to our site, you will see that we are giving prominent space to Doug’s new book on music. A recent article is an excerpt from his book, and this article is submitted along with it. That should answer your question.

And, if I may offer an additional plug, from what I have seen, Doug’s book is well worth reading. Everyone should buy a copy.

Actually, Don, it doesn’t answer the question re. whether Doug gave permission for that particular post.

What makes you think this post wasn’t made under mutual agreement?

[BryanBice]

Actually, Don, it doesn’t answer the question re. whether Doug gave permission for that particular post.

Upcoming installments will no doubt tackle Patch the Pirate, 1920’s Gospel ditties, and “I’m Inright Outright Upright Downright Happy All the Time!”

XD

I will have to respectfully disagree with this statement:

“we believe that fundamental ministries are adopting a new repertoire of congregational music without a proper vetting of the texts and musical sounds, or an exploration of scriptural principles regarding the spiritual health of a local assembly”

The fundamentalist hymn publishers (like Garlock, Pettit/Coleman) and music companies (like Soundforth) have evaluated songs from SGI, the Getty’s, Townend, and others, and have made the decision to use these hymns in their hymnals and recordings. Also, most Pastors I know, have weighed the decision to use this newer hymnody by searching by practicing Scriptural and prayerful evaluation.

So, from the tone of this article, I am wondering if we have a new book on music out in the market that is built on this wrong assumption?

“We believe that fundamental ministries are adopting a new repertoire of congregational music without a proper vetting of the texts and musical sounds, or an exploration of scriptural principles regarding the spiritual health of a local assembly”

I guess my reaction to this quote is a little different. How could the authors possible know what kind of private vetting of texts or exploration of principles is or is not going on in any church? I can understand criticizing a lack of teaching, which would be slightly more verifiable, but to criticize a lack of study is really impossibly hard to prove or even surmise. A more honest and responsible statement would be to say “we don’t agree with this new move we see in many churches.”

“We believe…”

Would be the words that should be a tip off.

While it may be difficult to prove as a statement of fact, as an observation I suppose you will have to wait and see if the matters the authors bring forward show insufficient thought has been given to the question.

Pastor Bice and I are friends (and he is the pastor of my wife’s home church) and his question stems from a conversation we had a few months ago, while my family and I were on furlough. Yes, the “Examination…” was posted with both my and Pastor Ryan Weberg’s permission. Sorry for any confusion I have caused.

Hello, DavidO,

Don’t worry, neither I nor Pastor Weberg (co-author of the article) have any intention of starting a series! Of course, I think every local church and Christian ministry has the responsibility of examining anything before inclusion in ministry. We hope this article will be an encouragement to careful evaluation.

Pastor Weberg and I wrote this article primarily as a response to the many questions we have received about the specific ministries in question. Could I ask you and other readers to not make any judgments until you have read the entire article? It is being serialized into three sections, I believe.

DB

Pastor Roof,

Thanks for your note. I appreciate your perspective regarding the quote above. I have no doubt of the veracity of your statement regarding publishers, although I have no personal knowledge of how those ministries evaluate what they use. (I am friends with many folks in those ministries, so this should not be viewed as a sly slap at them). My statement about fundamental ministries has two points: 1. from what I can see, many ministries have not taken the time to make a careful examination; 2. those that have made some examination may not have considered some of the issues Pastor Weberg and I raise.

It may be that your ‘fundamentalist neighborhood’ has operated differently from what I have observed in Asia and North America. As was stated in another posted response, this article was written in response to numerous requests and questions. I praise the Lord for any ministries that are careful about their use and application of the Scriptures in the area of music, whether they actually agree with my study and application or not.

Regarding the book connection - I greatly appreciate Proclaim and Defend’s promotion of NEW HEART… but the “Examination…” article is not a part of that book.

I trust your complete reading of all three parts will put the “Examination…” article in a better light.

DB

Shaynus,

Please read my response to Pastor Roof. The statement certainly was not intended as a criticism, so much as a statement of what we (the authors) have observed. Trust me when I say, before the Lord, that we strove to be as scrupulously ‘honest and responsible’ as possible. A reading of the remaining parts of the article, will, I trust, bear this out.

DB

…I received a personal note from Doug. Got my question answered.

I understand the technicality that you’re talking about only what you have observed. My point is that you can’t have possibly observed what happens mostly in private, and make any kind of point that has “oughtness” behind it. Again, a direct approach to the “oughtness” of a matter is better than telling the kids that they haven’t really done the research. I simply think your essay would have a better thrust and direction, if the premise was something like “you shouldn’t do this” than “you haven’t thought hard enough about this.” Get it? I await the next installments.

Also, why are comments happening here publicly and not your website?

the website in question is the FBFI’s blog. That is about as public as SI and SI has a wider audience. As for the rest, let’s see parts 2 and 3.

The comment is about comments, Rob.