Among those killed was the 14-year-old daughter of the church’s pastor, Frank Pomeroy, and his wife, Sherri. Sherri Pomeroy wrote in a text message to the AP that she and her husband were out of town in two different states when the attack occurred. “We lost our 14 year old daughter today and many friends,” she wrote. “Neither of us have made it back into town yet to personally see the devastation. I am at the charlotte airport trying to get home as soon as i can.”
You never think it’s going to happen in little churches in rural settings.
Churches everywhere should think seriously about training for such events. I recommend ALICE: https://www.alicetraining.com/
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
…is that consistently, when an active shooter is confronted with a lethal threat, he tends to make the next shot on himself. The hero doesn’t need to be Dirty Harry, he doesn’t need to have as “big” or “scary” a gun as the shooter, nothing like that. He simply needs to present a lethal threat and interrupt the thinking process of the shooter. (think the OODA loop)
Examples include this case, the Oregon mall case where a guy with an AR-15 was interrupted by a man with a pistol, and many others. This is one place where I heartily disagree with the ALICE approach; the data suggest that it is better to fight back with any means available.
“I had the opportunity to minister and provide counsel to many after the Wedgwood Baptist Church shooting that occurred in Fort Worth in 1999. After ministering through that tragedy, my colleague Dr. David Penley and I began the process of searching the Scriptures to see what we could learn about ministry in the midst of crisis. We developed what we call the Biblical Crisis Ministry Model…” -Dr. John Babler, SWBTS
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
“Christ is the one who’s going to be lifted up,” Pomeroy said at a Nov. 6 news conference. “That’s what I’m telling everybody. You lean into what you don’t understand. You lean into the Lord … Whatever life brings to you, lean on the Lord rather than your own understanding. I don’t understand, but I know my God does. And that’s where I’ll leave that.”
The ALICE training is interesting, but I’m not sure how feasible it is. Most churches are essentially barns - there simply aren’t any good places to hide or flee. There’s the door into the sanctuary and maybe one other on each side that can accommodate 1 person at a time, IF the attender can get through the pews/piano to get there. If the shooter is standing in the rear doorway - the only significant exit - he’s basically got a shooting gallery, especially if he’s spraying shots across the building.
I’m glad that there were people there to stop the shooter and that the attacker is dead, but I don’t know what kind of measures we could take to protect our people short of arming deputies in the building. I’m not sure that’s the right solution either.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Regarding Jay’s comment, it strikes me that this weekend, we will be honoring a group of people, many of whom have been in a real shooting gallery, and who also carry the marks they earned there. They might be able to give some pointers.
(not tough for me, as I’m one of those who will listen to aging Marines……the stories are always good)
I’m glad that there were people there to stop the shooter
There apparently wasn’t anyone there to stop the shooter. He left and was shot outside the building after he left by a neighbor who heard the shots and came to the church.
I don’t know what kind of measures we could take to protect our people short of arming deputies in the building. I’m not sure that’s the right solution either.
It’s absolutely the right decision. Any church (or public gathering) that does not have armed attenders (who are trained, approved, and deployed in appropriate places) is irresponsible. There is no excuse in this day and age to be unprepared. Whenever this happens, we call people with guns to come and help. But if they were already there, it might still be deadly, but most likely not nearly so deadly.
The church had attendance of about 100 each week, of which probably a third to half were children, and about 2% of Texans have a carry permit. It was not a gimme, statistically speaking, that there would even be there, let alone carrying and in a position where he could or would return fire. You need to plan for security in cases like this.
Yes. Part of planning is having adequate security and that i have no idea why that wouldn’t include someone armed. It seems like it should be a gimme because of planning. Why wouldn’t it? What’s a good reason not to be prepared?
Discussion
NewUpdate: 27 dead / 27 injured
http://abc7ny.com/at-least-27-dead-27-injured-in-texas-church-shooting-…
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewThe killer
https://www.thedailybeast.com/devin-patrick-kelley-idd-as-sutherland-sp…
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewNowhere safe anymore
You never think it’s going to happen in little churches in rural settings.
Churches everywhere should think seriously about training for such events. I recommend ALICE: https://www.alicetraining.com/
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
NewBREAKING: Gunman's former in
BREAKING: Gunman’s former in-laws ‘from time to time’ attended Texas church where shooting occurred, sheriff tells CNN.
https://twitter.com/AP/status/927530869950238720
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewHero confronted gunman
http://nypost.com/2017/11/05/hero-neighbor-got-his-rifle-shot-at-texas-…
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewWorth noting...
…is that consistently, when an active shooter is confronted with a lethal threat, he tends to make the next shot on himself. The hero doesn’t need to be Dirty Harry, he doesn’t need to have as “big” or “scary” a gun as the shooter, nothing like that. He simply needs to present a lethal threat and interrupt the thinking process of the shooter. (think the OODA loop)
Examples include this case, the Oregon mall case where a guy with an AR-15 was interrupted by a man with a pistol, and many others. This is one place where I heartily disagree with the ALICE approach; the data suggest that it is better to fight back with any means available.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
New“I had the opportunity to
“I had the opportunity to minister and provide counsel to many after the Wedgwood Baptist Church shooting that occurred in Fort Worth in 1999. After ministering through that tragedy, my colleague Dr. David Penley and I began the process of searching the Scriptures to see what we could learn about ministry in the midst of crisis. We developed what we call the Biblical Crisis Ministry Model…” -Dr. John Babler, SWBTS
https://theologicalmatters.com/2017/11/06/not-in-church-thoughts-about-sutherland-springs/
David R. Brumbelow
NewThanks, David
Thanks for the link.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
NewLink to worship service from one week ago
https://youtu.be/KYu-XUdms10
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
New"Christ is the one who's..."
“Christ is the one who’s going to be lifted up,” Pomeroy said at a Nov. 6 news conference. “That’s what I’m telling everybody. You lean into what you don’t understand. You lean into the Lord … Whatever life brings to you, lean on the Lord rather than your own understanding. I don’t understand, but I know my God does. And that’s where I’ll leave that.”
http://bpnews.net/49853/tx-shooting—sbc-leaders-to-visit-grieving-pastor-church
David R. Brumbelow
NewALICE is interesting but I don't know if its' feasible
The ALICE training is interesting, but I’m not sure how feasible it is. Most churches are essentially barns - there simply aren’t any good places to hide or flee. There’s the door into the sanctuary and maybe one other on each side that can accommodate 1 person at a time, IF the attender can get through the pews/piano to get there. If the shooter is standing in the rear doorway - the only significant exit - he’s basically got a shooting gallery, especially if he’s spraying shots across the building.
I’m glad that there were people there to stop the shooter and that the attacker is dead, but I don’t know what kind of measures we could take to protect our people short of arming deputies in the building. I’m not sure that’s the right solution either.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
NewYou might get some pointers this weekend...
Regarding Jay’s comment, it strikes me that this weekend, we will be honoring a group of people, many of whom have been in a real shooting gallery, and who also carry the marks they earned there. They might be able to give some pointers.
(not tough for me, as I’m one of those who will listen to aging Marines……the stories are always good)
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
NewI'm glad that there were
There apparently wasn’t anyone there to stop the shooter. He left and was shot outside the building after he left by a neighbor who heard the shots and came to the church.
It’s absolutely the right decision. Any church (or public gathering) that does not have armed attenders (who are trained, approved, and deployed in appropriate places) is irresponsible. There is no excuse in this day and age to be unprepared. Whenever this happens, we call people with guns to come and help. But if they were already there, it might still be deadly, but most likely not nearly so deadly.
NewOn the statistics
The church had attendance of about 100 each week, of which probably a third to half were children, and about 2% of Texans have a carry permit. It was not a gimme, statistically speaking, that there would even be there, let alone carrying and in a position where he could or would return fire. You need to plan for security in cases like this.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
NewYou need to plan for security
Yes. Part of planning is having adequate security and that i have no idea why that wouldn’t include someone armed. It seems like it should be a gimme because of planning. Why wouldn’t it? What’s a good reason not to be prepared?