Controversy over the upcoming Noah film

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dgszweda's picture

Jim wrote:

Tip to anyone who has never seen Casablanca .... 

It's better than 99.9% of all modern films! Skip Noah's Ark ... and see Casablanca

 

 

Casablanca takes place in a seedy nightclub and gambling establishment.  There is some violent killing.  Being untruthful or sly with the ordained government.  He is kissing women and holding them too tight.  Casablanca is just a few steps away from moral disaster.

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

dgszweda wrote:

Jim wrote:

Tip to anyone who has never seen Casablanca .... 

It's better than 99.9% of all modern films! Skip Noah's Ark ... and see Casablanca

 

 

Casablanca takes place in a seedy nightclub and gambling establishment.  There is some violent killing.  Being untruthful or sly with the ordained government.  He is kissing women and holding them too tight.  Casablanca is just a few steps away from moral disaster.

Not necessarily contradictory statements.

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

Jim's picture

Rick loves Ilsa with a self-less love that relinquishes her to her husband, Victor ("you're getting on that plane with Victor where you belong")

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034583/quotes?item=qt0429980

(Reminder when Rick and Ilsa fell in love ("We'll always have Paris"), Ilsa thought she was a war-widow!)

Some reviews:

http://www.christiancinema.com/catalog/article_info.php?articles_id=149#

http://www.previewonline.org/holyholly/casablanca.html

Jim's picture

On Bible-themed film (my view):

Wayne Wilson's picture

Hollywood will make future decisions about Bible movies and how to make them based almost entirely on money.  If Noah is as bad as they say it is regarding it's message, I would say discourage attendance.  Financial success will breed more of the same.

 

DeMille's The Ten Commandments though not strictly biblical, does preserve the essence of the Bible's message.  God is the good guy, no equivocating.  I saw it on the big screen a few years back in a big theater on Hollywood Blvd., the theater full of typical movie buffs.  It was quite a moment when Moses said at the Golden calf incident, "There is no freedom without the Law!", then held aloft the Ten Commandments and cried out, "If you will not live by the Law, then die by the Law!"  Cue earthquake swallowing the degenerate alive and lightning bolts zapping people.  It was a different America that produced that movie.

 

We all have our opinions on movies and morals, but I'm with Jim on Casablanca --- one of the truly great movies of all time.  It's a model for how to show sin in a manner that is not prurient or demeaning to the actors.  Yes, self-sacrifice is the theme.  "The problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world."  Something is higher than my deepest feelings. Good message, that. 

I suppose another thread could be devoted to the morality of lying to Nazis in wartime. 

Wayne Wilson's picture

Yikes! If the Bible calls a man "righteous" and "blameless" and says he "walked with God" then what do you say to preachers who say he wasn't? 

 

ChrisC's picture

take a minute and look at the link to Kugel's book. He includes quotes from Philo and Jerome. You might still disagree with this point of view, but at least it won't be out of ignorance.

Wayne Wilson's picture

ChrisC wrote:

take a minute and look at the link to Kugel's book. He includes quotes from Philo and Jerome. You might still disagree with this point of view, but at least it won't be out of ignorance.

Well, I actually did read those quotes before I commented. All they are saying was that Noah wasn't absolutely good.  I don't know anyone who claims he, or anyone, was absolutely good.  Kugel's making too much of these quotes.  Of course, Kugel isn't interested in the Bible as God's word, which is why he ignores the plain statement of Gen 6:9 that he "walked with God."  Philo is about as wild an interpreter as one can find anywhere.  I confess I didn't watch Driscoll, because he's...well, he's Driscoll.

Most of the best men of the Bible sinned, or did stupid things.  That doesn't disqualify them from high approbation.

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

Wayne Wilson wrote:
Most of the best men of the Bible sinned, or did stupid things.  That doesn't disqualify them from high approbation.

Actually, I think it would disqualify them from high praise from God. I think the point wasn't that Noah was righteous because of his own deeds but because he was declared righteous based on his trust in God (i.e. faith). 

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

SuzanneT's picture

The "Sucker punch" article linked in the OP was telling..pretty sure I'd find sitting through this movie insufferable.  

Wayne Wilson's picture

Chip Van Emmerik wrote:

Wayne Wilson wrote:
Most of the best men of the Bible sinned, or did stupid things.  That doesn't disqualify them from high approbation.

Actually, I think it would disqualify them from high praise from God. I think the point wasn't that Noah was righteous because of his own deeds but because he was declared righteous based on his trust in God (i.e. faith). 

 

I'll have to disagree that we are talking only about imputed righteousness based on faith when Scripture commends people who are "righteous" "blameless" and who "walk with God."  Similar language is used of Job and he was a visibly godly individual who lived an impressively moral lifestyle.  If these things said of Noah are referring to imputed righteousness only, then every believer would receive these same appellations, but they don't.  Some men are exceptionally godly (Ezekiel 14:14-20).   

dgszweda's picture

Jim wrote:

Rick loves Ilsa with a self-less love that relinquishes her to her husband, Victor ("you're getting on that plane with Victor where you belong")

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034583/quotes?item=qt0429980

(Reminder when Rick and Ilsa fell in love ("We'll always have Paris"), Ilsa thought she was a war-widow!)

Some reviews:

http://www.christiancinema.com/catalog/article_info.php?articles_id=149#

http://www.previewonline.org/holyholly/casablanca.html

 

Man, you didn't get my humor in this one.  I threw my comment out their to be facetious.

ChrisC's picture

Wayne Wilson wrote:
Kugel's making too much of these quotes.  Of course, Kugel isn't interested in the Bible as God's word, which is why he ignores the plain statement of Gen 6:9 that he "walked with God."  Philo is about as wild an interpreter as one can find anywhere.
kugel actually isn't trying to show either view as better. the more common view today is on the previous page. kugel's point throughout the book is to show how the views we see as 'common sense' and 'natural' developed over time and weren't always held as so obvious.

James K's picture

It doesn't matter what the Bible says on this issue.  People do whatever they want because there is no higher authority than our own minds.  That is what this issue has become.

1 Kings 8:60 - so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.

Ron Bean's picture

All movies have their errors. Even in BJU's "Milltown Pride", the hero bats out of order in the last inning so that he can deliver the winning hit.

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

DavidO's picture

Ron, that's not an error.   That is the filmmakers' attempt to show how God will sovereignly overcome all obstacles once you are saved to get you your best life now.