"Joe Paterno presents an example for fundamentalists that I hope they won’t ignore"
[Greg Long]Your response is ill-informed. Joe Paterno didn’t run the athletic department. Back in 2007, when the university wanted to fire Renee Portland, the ladies’ b’ball coach who Paterno had hired back in 1980 and still supported, guess what, she got fired. When the AD wanted to build a baseball field in the parking lot of the football stadium and Paterno protested it, guess what, the baseball field was built in 2007. Joe Paterno was highly respected, but he did not run Penn State University. One of these days your willingness to rush to judgment may come back on your own head.[Jonathan Charles]Jonathan, that was simply not enough. Everyone knows Joe Pa runs the athletic department (and some might argue the entire university in some ways). He should have followed through to see that more was done. It is simply inexcusable, as the PSU trustees recognize.[Greg Long] This from an ESPN article today:I know the climate ESPN and others have set in place makes anyone who would warn against a rush to judgment seem to be pro-child abuse. God forbid any of us find ourselves in such a situation! Noone knows what Paterno knew in 2002. He did report it up the chain to the AD and it was also reported to the school VP who was over the University Police. Paterno is not over the University Police, Schultz was, and he knew about the 2002 incident days after it happened.Why didn’t Paterno contact the police when first informed in 2002 by then-graduate assistant Mike McQueary of an alleged locker room incident involving Sandusky and a young boy?
Why did Paterno heir apparent Sandusky unexpectedly resign from Penn State in 1999?
Why was Sandusky granted special access to the Penn State athletic facilities even after the 2002 incident?
Why did all of this remain secret for so long?
“Joe doesn’t know why [Sandusky] resigned?” says a former athletic director at a rival institution. “Bull–-. That was the first cover-up. … In ‘99, when Sandusky resigns, you think this coaching staff didn’t know what was going on?
“In 2002, this could have been a two-day story: ‘Ex-Penn State assistant coach is arrested.’ I’m not saying it wouldn’t have been a painful story, but it would have been dealt with. But there’s so much arrogance to think they can keep it a secret. And it starts with Joe … Monumental ego and arrogance.”
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7221684/the-tragedy-penn…
I would also encourage folks to read the Cru Facebook post linked to above. It is very revealing and very sobering.
Jonathan, back in 2004 when he was asked to retire he basically said “Thanks, but no thanks.” From what I’ve read he hand picked Curley to be the AD, the same man who has now been indicted for perjury.
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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
But we are getting off track anyway. Do you agree or disagree with the action the PSU trustees took to fire Paterno?
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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
[Greg Long] Jonathan, back in 2004 when he was asked to retire he basically said “Thanks, but no thanks.” From what I’ve read he hand picked Curley to be the AD, the same man who has now been indicted for perjury.Curley was the one who came to Paterno along with Spanier to talk to Paterno about retiring. Paterno told them to get off his backside. Paterno did have enough power at that time to keep his job after a few losing seasons. It is stretch to say that he had power to do anything and everything he wanted at Penn State. Hey, it might come out that he knew the full blown story and chose to sugarcoat it in his report up the chain. But at this time, he has testified that he did not know what McQueary told the grand jury and that what he did know he reported to Curley and Schultz, who was the VP and over the University Police. At that point, the info was in the hands of those who should have had it and should have done something about it. People ask, “Well, as time went on and it was clear that nothing came of the info Paterno passed on, why didn’t Paterno follow up?” Back in ‘98, Sandusky was investigated and the results were given to the DA in Centre County who chose not to prosecute. For all we know, as time went by, Paterno may have assumed this was, again, the outcome.
Thanks for posting those links!
The Facebook note from Tim Henderson is very moving, troubling and challenging at the same time. That should be our response as the Church to these kinds of sad occasions, but too often we protect ourselves and reputations, and care more about technicalities than the big picture.
The Facebook note from Tim Henderson is very moving, troubling and challenging at the same time. That should be our response as the Church to these kinds of sad occasions, but too often we protect ourselves and reputations, and care more about technicalities than the big picture.
Striving for the unity of the faith, for the glory of God ~ Eph. 4:3, 13; Rom. 15:5-7 I blog at Fundamentally Reformed. Follow me on Twitter.
[Greg Long] But we are getting off track anyway. Do you agree or disagree with the action the PSU trustees took to fire Paterno?It was a pragmatic decision by the board. Ideally, all parties involved should have been on administrative leave (w/ or w/o pay) and given time for the university to investigate what each party knew, when they knew it and what each party did with what they knew. Paterno clearly, and I don’t know about Spanier, but Paterno was never given an opportunity to answer such questions beyond what is mentioned briefly about him in the presentment. All parties involved should have been put on administrative leave first thing Monday morning, but the school did nothing for almost 3 days (Mon.-Wed.) and by that time the media had tried and convicted all parties. A person is innocent until proven guilty in the court of law, but not in the court of public opinion. God help any of us who ever get charged with something that we get a fair hearing before we are punished.
I think it was absolutely the right decision and the only decision they could make.
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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
[Audrey Cahilly] http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/notes/tim-henderson/a-deficiency-of-…] This from Cru. (formerly Campus Crusade) at Penn State.
If something similar to this ever happens to you in the pastorate, then we’ll see if you are so dogmatic that it is “absolutely the right thing to do” to let a person go with no opportunity to explain his side of the story. It might end up having been the right thing to do, but the board vice chairman was clear in the conference Wednesday night that they hadn’t talked to Paterno other than the call they made to cut him loose at 9:45 P.M.
[Jonathan Charles] If something similar to this ever happens to you in the pastorate, then we’ll see if you are so dogmatic that it is “absolutely the right thing to do” to let a person go with no opportunity to explain his side of the story. It might end up having been the right thing to do, but the board vice chairman was clear in the conference Wednesday night that they hadn’t talked to Paterno other than the call they made to cut him loose at 9:45 P.M.
Paterno already told his side of the story when he released a statement admitting that he had been told about shower incident in 2002 but did nothing more than tell the AD (excusing his further inaction due to not being told all the details of incident, which makes no sense) and then when he released another public statement regretting that he did not do more.
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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
His recollection is that he was told in vague terms and that he relayed what he was told. He told Curley and Schultz who is the VP over, among other departments, the University Police. Yea, in light of this, I’ m sure he wishes he told the police directly. If you are an assistant pastor or a youth pastor and you tell your pastor that such-and-such happened and for whatever reason, he does nothing about it, you would certainly wish later that you had done something about it yourself, but at the time, you might have felt that you were doing what you should do. Paterno’s regret is not equal to a confession of a coverup on his part.
I read this article yesterday,
[url] http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1059.html
I thought it presented a fair case for why Joe Paterno failed to meet his moral obligation in the matter, even if he fulfilled the letter of the law.
[url] http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1059.html
I thought it presented a fair case for why Joe Paterno failed to meet his moral obligation in the matter, even if he fulfilled the letter of the law.
Putting all of the moral issues aside for a moment …I have a question.
IF Joe Paterno complied with the letter of the law in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and IF Joe Paterno followed the written Penn State protocols in place at the time for reporting such incidents…would he have a case for wrongful termination? While I do not know if PA is an “employment at will” state, I am sure in his postion, he must have had a contract.
IF Joe Paterno complied with the letter of the law in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and IF Joe Paterno followed the written Penn State protocols in place at the time for reporting such incidents…would he have a case for wrongful termination? While I do not know if PA is an “employment at will” state, I am sure in his postion, he must have had a contract.
[ppayette] Putting all of the moral issues aside for a moment …I have a question.I can’t imagine that the university’s board would not have considered the legal ramifications of their decision. Certainly they’re not a bunch of buffoons, are they?
IF Joe Paterno complied with the letter of the law in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and IF Joe Paterno followed the written Penn State protocols in place at the time for reporting such incidents…would he have a case for wrongful termination? While I do not know if PA is an “employment at will” state, I am sure in his postion, he must have had a contract.
Jonathan, I have to admit that I have an emotional perspective on this. I have two boys, including a 10-year-old. It makes me sick to my stomach to even think of someone doing that to a boy. But you know else makes me sick to my stomach? The fact that a 6-4, 240 lb. man did nothing to stop the act in progress (what if Sandusky were beating the boy…would he have intervened then?). That the head football coach, Athletic Director, Vice President, and President did nothing to investigate or report this incident, even though they were aware of previous allegations of improper conduct with boys. That Sandusky continued to have contact with and victimize other boys.
It finally took a high school coach and administrator six years later to do what was morally right, what Paterno and the PSU administrators could or would not do.
Please watch (or listen to…I had trouble with the video when I tried to watch it) this ESPN report. I don’t know how anyone could possibly argue that Paterno should have kept his job. In fact, more people should be fired.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7229328
It finally took a high school coach and administrator six years later to do what was morally right, what Paterno and the PSU administrators could or would not do.
Please watch (or listen to…I had trouble with the video when I tried to watch it) this ESPN report. I don’t know how anyone could possibly argue that Paterno should have kept his job. In fact, more people should be fired.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7229328
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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
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