Children in the Worship Service

Although I greatly and dearly love worshipping as a family, one of the things I noted with the old “Vision Forum” view (which I think was aligned to FIW nationally) was that they argued that there are no Biblical examples of age or sex segregated ministries—OK, argument from silence, to be sure, but then I remembered that our Lord’s Disciples were all young or middle aged men, and then there were companies of the prophets with about that description, too.

Well, I guess there goes that silence, doesn’t it?

Jason writes:

each congregation is at liberty to decide how they want to do it

I agree. My post (which I did not write for Sharper Iron, but for my church) simply explains why we include children 1st grade and older in our AM Lord’s Day worship service. You may not find the verses I mentioned helpful (and there is certainly room for discussion on the 1 John reference, though the fact that John addresses young men and fathers along with little children seems to indicate to me that in that specific spot, he is referring to cross sections of the church, not Christians in general - as he does elsewhere).

My purpose is to demonstrate that my study of Scripture, as a primary reference, has informed our church practice on this point, even though these verses do not issue commands. And definitely yes; “each congregation is at liberty to decide how they want to do it.”

Though the verses I’ve mentioned (and yes, 1 John is more debatable, while the observations about Eph. and Col. are more apparent) do not issue a prescriptive command, they do provide valuable insight to consider when we consult Scripture as our guide to church administration. Before developing a children’s ministry approach, it is very prudent to give attention to these verses. Furthermore, let me be clear that I am not advocating for family integrated worship. I view the family integrated worship movement as a pendulum swing extreme that has swung too far the other way in reaction to churches that segregate everything in the church. If this discussion string turns into a discussion about the family integrated worship movement, then count me in as one who does not support the movement.

When my son was 3 or 4, we were touring the historical churches of Boston. As we walked through the church building my son seemed to be looking for something. When I asked him what he was looking for he asked, “Where’s the nursery?”

Does anyone know what we did with children before the advent of nurseries and children’s church?

Brother Overmiller,

Please forgive my remarks about publicity - bad form on my part.

And thank you for the follow-up, as well. Much appreciated.

Sincerely,

JN

[JNoël]

Please forgive my remarks about publicity - bad form on my part.

No worries at all, Jason. Your comments provided a helpful springboard for some beneficial clarification and some very useful conversation. The FIW movement has exasperated many of us and used the verses I’ve mentioned to prescribe that all churches should include all children in all gatherings, with no segregation whatsoever. If I have expressed ideas like this, please forgive me as well. I have no desire to associate with the FIW movement and its agenda.

[Ron Bean]

When my son was 3 or 4, we were touring the historical churches of Boston. As we walked through the church building my son seemed to be looking for something. When I asked him what he was looking for he asked, “Where’s the nursery?”

Does anyone know what we did with children before the advent of nurseries and children’s church?

I don’t know about all churches way back, but this suggests that men above age 16 sat on one side, women and children on the other, more or less about the same way they do in Orthodox Judiasm, I believe, at Plimoth Plantation. I have also heard of family pews and pew rentals—that appears to be more or less the system that Richard Llewellyn describes in (and John Ford shows) in How Green was My Valley. It is worth noting as one goes through the old churches of Europe that few of them have a nursery/Sunday School wing, either. I am guessing that that although I disagree with some of the claims of FIW, that historically children have been allowed and encouraged to be in church services.

Strengths and weaknesses to that, of course, as we remember that one of the great triumphs of 19th century Christianity was to teach poor children to read through the Sunday School. But our history nonetheless, it seems.

News: Target removes kids’ shopping carts because kids have run wild in the stores with them

http://www.startribune.com/target-removes-kids-shopping-carts-after-lit…

The Minneapolis-based retailer pulled the plug on the test earlier this week, just a few weeks into it, after receiving an earful of complaints as customers vented on social media about bruised ankles and shins and the difficulty of managing their children who often got carried away with the carts. They described shopping cart collisions and meltdowns that resulted from parents not wanting to buy all of the items they put in the carts.

My own take is that a 6 year old should be able to sit quietly for an hour. 5 & below in the nursery or children’s church: 6 & up in with the adults

I agree with your take. But please don’t take away the children’s strollers! Our family loves them!

In some of the Family Integrated Churches I have observed, the distraction level from fussy children was enormous. The level of the service was “dumbed down” to make it more helpful to young children. In Great Britain, it is common for mothers of young children to stay home from church until their children are older, since there is no nursery (creche, as it is called), and the services are not suitable for young children. Sunday School is often held in the afternoon, and only children attend, not adults. I don’t know if any of these situations is superior to American customs.

Good discussion here. Also a lot of generalizations here. I attend a family integrated church (for less than a year now and the first we have ever even visited). By my experience most of the distraction concerns are not really valid. We have a family with two Down Syndrome children that are probably louder than the “average” child. I don’t even hear them anymore. I get the impression that is true in general about the whole church. The concerns that some have raised about parents not being able to worship because they are being distracted by their own children puzzle me. It is their own children. Teach them to be quiet and sit still and bear with them until they learn it.

I don’t personally buy in to all the exegetical arguments to support family integrated worship but the opposite view doesn’t have any either. My concern is more along the lines of promoting the immaturity of young people. It’s more clear to me with things like youth group where a young man, who in one year could be the spiritual leader of a home, can’t sit in on adult Bible study. That to me is absurd. I don’t believe that our services are “dumbed down” for the children. However, since the average American has a reading level of around fifth grade that may not be such a bad idea.

Hamilton Square has a nursery, children’s church, junior church, and a mothers’ room (a glassed in room off the balcony). We only have the nursery for the Sunday pm and Wednesday night services. There is no firm rule on the matter. So, you’ll see children of various ages in the main Sunday morning service. Junior High and aboves are in the main service, with two or three of them rotating through the ushers crew of five.

The Evangelical Christian-Baptist meetings I’ve attended have all ages in the services. Mind you, EC-B services run +/- two hours. If the congregation is large enough, men are on one side; women are on the other. Families sit together towards the rear. Junior boys and girls sit in the front rows on their respective sides. For the most part, the children are fairly quiet. Cryers are taken out as needed and the movement is ignored.

[josh p]

I don’t believe that our services are “dumbed down” for the children.

If children were present in the Ephesian and Colossian church assemblies (Eph. 6:1-3, Col. 3:20), then it doesn’t appear that Paul “dumbed down” anything to accomodate them. But what he did do was speak to the children. A pastor should speak to whatever groups of people are present in congregation. If that includes children, then he should provide applications for children, etc.