Pastors With Fake Degrees

The reasoning is apparently that just using the term “doctor” is inherently deceptive. But this is ridiculous. Everybody knows there are different kinds of “doctors” (as my MD example above also shows). Those who don’t know there are at least three different kinds of “doctors” in theology (make that four…and counting) probably also don’t particularly care.

Unless you’ve got a DMin or one of the honoraries and you put “PhD” or “ThD” after your name instead, there is no “chicanery” going on.

See ATS degree program standards here

http://www.ats.edu/uploads/accrediting/documents/degree-program-standar…

As an aside … let’s all (all of us adults) just call each other by our first names … as Paul did!

Portions of a Wikipedia article on the D.D. honorary degree. Must have been an important case against a Universal Life church that brought the abuse of honorary degrees to the attention of authorities:

In the United States, the degree is generally conferred honoris causa by a church-related college, seminary, or university to recognize the recipient’s ministry-orientated accomplishments….Under federal law, a 1974 judgement accepted expert opinion that an “Honorary Doctor of Divinity is a strictly religious title with no academic standing. Such titles may be issued by bona fide churches and religious denominations, such as plaintiff (Universal Life Church), so long as their issuance is limited to a course of instruction in the principles of the church or religious denomination“…. In a 1976 interview with Morley Safer of 60 Minutes, Universal Life Church founder Rev. Kirby J. Hensley professed that the Church’s honorary Doctor of Divinity degree was “…just a little piece of paper. And it ain’t worth anything, you know, under God’s mighty green Earth—you know what I mean?—as far as value.” In 2006, Universal Life Church minister Kevin Andrews advised potential degree recipients not to misrepresent the title as an educational achievement to employers, recommending instead that it would be appropriate to list such credentials “under the heading of Titles, Awards, or Other Achievements” on curricula vitae.

I think that last sentence is important, many lay people hear “Dr.” and they assume it represents academic achievement.

Is the higher honor “Doctor”, or “pastor”. Think about that one a minute—the former merely denotes a degree of education, while the latter is a shepherd of the souls of men.

Besides, if a DMin is awarded for real reasons, it does denote a degree of scholarship, just practically earned instead of scholastically. And if it’s not actually earned (yes I’ve met a few of those), it tends to be pretty obvious whenever he starts talking.

I can say the guys here who earn D Min really work hard.

They a aren’t doing surgery or anything :)

I’m not sympathetic to the honorary degrees … but the D Min is not one of those

I’m wondering the same thing. A D.Min. has just as much right to be called “Doctor Jones” as a Ph.D. or a ThD. Doctor is what the “D” stands for. It is just a word. That is a very strange part of his article.

I know we don’t call lawyers doctors, but they certainly could be - they have a Juris Doctor degree, a Doctor of Law. There are loads of terminal professional degrees.

Ever since I was under the leadership of a pastor who demanded to be called “Doctor” by everyone after receiving his honorary degree, I’ve had an aversion to the practice.

…..I accompanied my pastor (at my previous church) once to the annual Pastor’s Circus School at you-know-where. This was circa 1983. During a break in the shenanigans proceedings, groups of attendees stood talking. One poor guy in our group made the egregious error of referring to our host as “Pastor Hyles.” Instantly, someone within earshot stormed over and yelled “That’s DOCTOR Hyles!” (Need I point out that his was merely an honorary title?)

At my present church I know several men with the D.Min degree, none of whom uses the honorific “Doctor.” My current pastor (M.Div & Ph.D from SBTS) is called “Pastor (first name)” by most people in the church, or simply “(first name)”. On our website, the abbreviation “Dr.” appears before his name, and it appears in print in some other uses, but it’s uncommon to hear it otherwise.

I know a retired Pastor who refused to acknowledge his own name. He only responded if somebody addressed him as, “Pastor *****.” He was retired, but it didn’t matter. He became angry if somebody called him by name. The man was simply infatuated with the title. You can always find a way to ruin a perfectly good thing (cf. Ecc 7:29).

For the uninitiated, the “Church of Universal Life” is not in fact a baptized life insurance company, but rather a mail order ordination company. Send in $40 or so, and you get your sheepskin AND a t shirt. I am not making this up. My brother’s wedding was done by a guy who’d become a “pastor” through that company. So even by the standards of Larry’s former affiliates, it’s pretty thin qualifications.

But that said, I’m appalled that Larry didn’t have more respect for an honorary degree from an unaccredited institution whose most famous graduate did time in jail for tax fraud. Next thing you know, he’s going to be pointing out that door again. :^)

So there is no question that men who have one degree and pass it off as another are being dishonest. As one who has a D.Min from Central Seminary I’ll quickly point out that many D.Min programs are not just an “easy pass” around a Ph.D. I would offer one more analysis. Most D.Min degrees from real Seminaries who demand real post-grad standards…..(including a real terminal project) for the D.Min…… have terminal projects that usually have to work (or are proven not to work) in the real world of ministry.

Many Ph.D.’s have a terminal project that can be theoretical and have nothing to do with the real world of …. anything …. including (sometimes especially) ministry. BTW….just as aside - be leery of people that are always showing off their education. Just because they have data does not know that they are qualified or proficient at leading (or serving) anyone……Just a quick observation - Straight Ahead! jt

Dr. Joel Tetreau, B.A., M.A., M.Div., Th.M (ip), D.Min……:)

As a doctoral mentor who has a terminal academic doctorate, I’d say this gentlemen needs a bit more education in the assignment and value of degrees.

There are two kinds of doctorates — Professional and Academic. Within those two areas, there IS a pecking order of degrees and some are not considered “terminal” (as in “as far as you reasonably need to go”).

A D.Min is a very legitimate degree and can take 2-4 years of post Master’s Degree work to complete. However, it is NOT considered an academic degree, but a professional degree. It also generally not considered to be sufficient for teaching at a graduate level by most accredited institutions. It is also not considered a “terminal” degree.
Other professional degrees would include J.D., M.D., DDS, etc… These are VERY serious and respectable degrees which involve professional practices in medicine or law, but generally do not prepare the holder to teach at a University Level in a graduate/post-graduate program.

Academic Terminal Degrees are best associated with Ph.D.’s. Ed.D.’s are also considered academic terminal, but lesser degrees than a Ph.D. with the difference being that Ph.D’s more frequently require an entire dissertation whereas Ed.D.’s may only require a practicum or thesis. In addition, Ph.D.’s generally have more stringent requirements for language mastery. (Usually two years of graduate level foreign languages). As is rather obvious, the Ed.D. is primarily a degree for education-related professions.

The real joke is the honorary degree and no one has abused these more than pastors in general and specifically, Independent Baptist ones. Whether a doctorate of divinity or a doctorate of letters, they are meant to be an expression of appreciation for some accomplishment, but they were never intended to be used formally, the recipient should not be called “doctor” and it should not be listed as an academic degree in a formal signature. Such degrees made many “pastors” the butt of snickers and snide jokes and remarks behind their backs as they pranced about insisting on being called “doctor”.
More recently, among my colleagues, most of us rarely use “Doctor” as part of our names except in academic circles when it is frequently required by our employers or when we are addressing a topic and need the weight of our training and study to add gravity to our presentations or papers. I almost never use mine outside of the classroom anymore and only then because it is required.
But as someone who is paid to assist D.Min students complete their degrees as a doctoral mentor, these ARE legitimate degrees and people work hard to earn them. Like an Ed. Specialist degree, they do not carry terminal weight, but they DO acknowledge a level of study and professional accomplishment that should be appreciated.

Noticed this discussion queue earlier today, and it correlated with something from my personal Bible reading yesterday, so I posted it here. Doing the hard work of rigorous academic study is very important. But advertising credentials is not, in fact quite the opposite is true. We need well-educated teachers and pastors, with a genuine walk with God who care little to none about their titles. A wise teacher is definitely stupid.