FBI Raids Mar-a-Lago: What Does it Mean?

“What does it all mean? How does a federal investigation of a senior official work, and what happens next? Plus: some possible theories and explanations that might shed some light on the events of yesterday.” - The Dispatch Podcast

Related: FBI Executes Search Warrant at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago; Christian Leaders React - C.Leaders

Discussion

….are that Trump voluntarily gave the original documents back to the government a couple of months ago (four years prior and counting to when Obama provided copies of his 30 million documents he took, FWIW), and the raid was predicated, allegedly, on the testimony of a mole who suggested here were more classified documents there.

Still seems like a little more abrupt than the kid gloves treatment Hilliary got, and is definitely a lot more abrupt than the treatment afforded Hunter Biden and his dad. This is especially the case when Trump appears to have been much more cooperative than Obama, Hilliary, or the Bidens.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

[Bert Perry]

Still seems like a little more abrupt than the kid gloves treatment Hilliary got, and is definitely a lot more abrupt than the treatment afforded Hunter Biden and his dad. This is especially the case when Trump appears to have been much more cooperative than Obama, Hilliary, or the Bidens.

It appears from reporting this evening that it was related to classified documents surrounding our nuclear weapons programs. Including documents so classified that they can only be seen by a handful of people. Add on top of the fact that these are being stored in public storage areas in a golf club. Trump lives in a glorified hotel room with other guests. Given the fact that he was totally fine sharing classified information with world leaders when he was President and that he admires other dictators around the world, it is probably unclear as to how protected these were and how pliable he would have been if someone entered into his circle. We may find out more, but it appears that it was very concerning for the safety of our nation and not just some low level classified material like that found on Clinton’s email server.

[dgszweda]

It appears from reporting this evening that it was related to classified documents surrounding our nuclear weapons programs. Including documents so classified that they can only be seen by a handful of people. Add on top of the fact that these are being stored in public storage areas in a golf club. Trump lives in a glorified hotel room with other guests. Given the fact that he was totally fine sharing classified information with world leaders when he was President and that he admires other dictators around the world, it is probably unclear as to how protected these were and how pliable he would have been if someone entered into his circle. We may find out more, but it appears that it was very concerning for the safety of our nation and not just some low level classified material like that found on Clinton’s email server.

If this turns out to be the case, then Trump should be an anathema to the republican party. (IMHO, he should already be.) But sadly, I fear we’ll continue to hear on SI why Trump is the greatest president ever and how he’s just being persecuted for similar crimes that HRC and Hunter Biden committed and got away with.

If this turns out to be the case… sadly, it won’t make a difference.

[T Howard]
dgszweda wrote:

It appears from reporting this evening that it was related to classified documents surrounding our nuclear weapons programs. Including documents so classified that they can only be seen by a handful of people. Add on top of the fact that these are being stored in public storage areas in a golf club. Trump lives in a glorified hotel room with other guests. Given the fact that he was totally fine sharing classified information with world leaders when he was President and that he admires other dictators around the world, it is probably unclear as to how protected these were and how pliable he would have been if someone entered into his circle. We may find out more, but it appears that it was very concerning for the safety of our nation and not just some low level classified material like that found on Clinton’s email server.

If this turns out to be the case, then Trump should be an anathema to the republican party. (IMHO, he should already be.) But sadly, I fear we’ll continue to hear on SI why Trump is the greatest president ever and how he’s just being persecuted for similar crimes that HRC and Hunter Biden committed and got away with.

If this turns out to be the case… sadly, it won’t make a difference.

DA Garland took the unprecedented step in asking the court to unseal everything. This is rarely ever requested. It is probably a move that is bolstered by an extremely strong confidence that not only was the warrant accurate, but they did take away those types of documents from the facility. It will be interesting if Trump contests it. He has until late Friday to contest it. Otherwise it will be released. If he contests it, it will make him look bad. If it is released and the Justice Department has this much confidence in it, it will most likely make him look bad.

We will see how it gets pitched. But I have no idea why an ex-president needs 15 boxes of classified materials, and what could potentially be some of the most classified material in the US stored at a golf club which has limited controls and people coming and going all day. The Russians aren’t stupid, I would be surprised if some foreign actors haven’t tried to get to this stuff, or have actually gotten to this stuff. And don’t discount our allies. Israel has spies in the US.

[T Howard]

If this turns out to be the case, then Trump should be an anathema to the republican party. (IMHO, he should already be.) But sadly, I fear we’ll continue to hear on SI why Trump is the greatest president ever and how he’s just being persecuted for similar crimes that HRC and Hunter Biden committed and got away with.

If this turns out to be the case… sadly, it won’t make a difference.

It will be interesting to see what information the warrants reveal if/when they are unsealed. It’s hard to tell at this stage whether this is going to be a big deal or not, but time will tell. But you’re right. Even if this turns out to be something substantial, it won’t change much. It’s actually quite predictable. Trump will claim that the evidence was planted and he’s being persecuted, and most of his supporters will believe it and no amount of evidence presented will change their mind. Not a whole lot different from the stolen election myth.

[Ken S]

Trump will claim that the evidence was planted and he’s being persecuted, and most of his supporters will believe it and no amount of evidence presented will change their mind. Not a whole lot different from the stolen election myth.

Also remember, there is big, big money in all of this. I think it was quite shocking that Infowars brings in almost $1M a day. There are the folllowers. But the people stoking the fears. The suits. They are making big, big dollars in all of this. People think these are people “exposing the truth”. Instead it is people using this to whip people up to buy what they are selling. And they are laughing all the way to the bank. Drain the swamp? Trump just brought in his family and a bunch of the inner circle who is just as corrupt as anything else claimed in the “swamp”. Trump drained one swamp, just to bring in another, as well as introduce the Oval office to nepotism.

[Bert Perry]

….are that Trump voluntarily gave the original documents back to the government a couple of months ago (four years prior and counting to when Obama provided copies of his 30 million documents he took, FWIW), and the raid was predicated, allegedly, on the testimony of a mole who suggested here were more classified documents there.

I looked this up. The only info I found was on websites that made me make sure my websecurity was up to date and to make me worry I’m not now on some FBI watch list… but it seems the Obama people took 30 million documents, not to store them in boxes under the stairs in the basement of one of his mansions, but for his library to be built in Chicago… so this is apples to oranges.

[T Howard]

But sadly, I fear we’ll continue to hear on SI why Trump is the greatest president ever and how he’s just being persecuted for similar crimes that HRC and Hunter Biden committed and got away with.

I may have missed it, but I remember no SI posters who think “Trump is the greatest president ever.” All defense of him that I have seen has been of the “he’s better than the other choice” variety. You may disagree, but you should value being accurate about what is claimed by those you disagree with.

As to the recent FBI search, since we don’t know yet what was in the warrant, it might have been a completely justified search. However, that’s not how it looks. Under the U.S. Constitution and laws, it’s not wrong to point out the obvious difference in law-enforcement handling of classified/top-secret info charges. Expecting “equality under law” is completely reasonable (and not “whataboutism” no matter what anyone claims), and when the differences are so stark, there had better be good (and publicly available) reasons for that.

Since Garland has requested that the warrant info be unsealed, and Trump has completely agreed with that, it ought to be quickly forthcoming. Any delays now will only serve to convince many that this IS persecution, no matter whether the search was completely justified or not.

Dave Barnhart

Not surprising…

Trump questions whether FBI planted evidence at Mar-a-Lago during raid

Par for the course for Trump.

Dave Barnhart, I’ve read a lot of praise for his policies here and that his policy accomplishments and supreme courts picks either outweigh or balance out his personal peccadillos (IOW, the end justifies the means). Someone here, if I remember correctly, even wrote that Trump was a more successful president than Reagan.

So, your own statement–“All defense of him that I have seen has been of the ‘he’s better than the other choice’ variety.”–is not accurately stating the support Trump receives around here.

ecce homo.

They are documents that Obama has, and the federal government is entitled to. It’s been well over 5 years since Obama left the White House. The request for getting copies should be going the other way, and yes, I’d have to bet some of those documents are needed for the efficient workings of government since Obama left office.

Regarding the notion that they’re nuclear documents, we have the very interesting scenario where anonymous sources are leaking information about top secret documents. Yes, if Trump took those, he deserves to be punished, but so do the leakers here. This garbage about “data security matters until it’s our own people leaking” needs to die a quick, very painful death.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

That helps a little.

I would only point out that praising policies does not make him “the greatest ever.” King David did a lot of good things, and generally, he is overall respected by Christians in spite of the fact that he sinned greatly in a number of areas, and his personal life was a mess. Of course, he was mentioned in scripture as a “man after God’s own heart,” but even Lot was described in Scripture as “just,” but we don’t see him the way we do David.

And yes, when evaluating Trump as a leader, especially when comparing him to the alternative(s), good policies do in many cases outweigh personal failings, at least in my mind. There are plenty who agree, even if you and a significant percentage of people don’t. Rod Dreher, for example, said something very similar in his post yesterday. He’s no Trump fan either.

And as regards your “ecce homo” comment, are you saying I think Trump is essentially “the Christ” being persecuted by an unjust leader? If so, you’re way off, but hey, I can’t help what you think.

Dave Barnhart

[Bert Perry]

They are documents that Obama has, and the federal government is entitled to. It’s been well over 5 years since Obama left the White House. The request for getting copies should be going the other way, and yes, I’d have to bet some of those documents are needed for the efficient workings of government since Obama left office.

The documents that Obama has were to be digitized and then returned to the National Archives. Granted it has been a long time and they have not been digitized and returned yet. However, Obama went through the National Archives when he kept those documents. Trump skirted the process with the National Archives and simply kept documents without telling anyone. The comparison between Obama and Trump is apples and oranges, not even remotely the same thing.

[dcbii]

And yes, when evaluating Trump as a leader, especially when comparing him to the alternative(s), good policies do in many cases outweigh personal failings, at least in my mind. There are plenty who agree, even if you and a significant percentage of people don’t. Rod Dreher, for example, said something very similar in his post yesterday. He’s no Trump fan either.

By biggest concern is not personal failings. It is the extreme danger that he presents to our democracy. He doesn’t want to be beholden to the Constitution, he wants to remake government into his own image and he would prefer to install a dictatorship. If all praise is not given to him, he complains. If he legitimately looses an election, his desire is to overturn it, even by force if necessary. Every president and even every person has personal failings. It is the danger that he presents to the over throw of our democracy that bothers me.

Actually, Trump could have released everything around the search warrant already. Yesterday he encouraged them to be released on his Truth website. We don’t need the Attorney General to ask for a release. But I will make a prediction, his lawyers will deny the request before 3pm today. Everything that has taken place with Trump in the last day, smells like his tax returns. “He would love to release his tax returns”, but “his attorneys say not to” or “he has to wait until the audit is over”. Both smoke screens, but it makes him look like he is not hiding anything.

[dgszweda]

By biggest concern is not personal failings. It is the extreme danger that he presents to our democracy. He doesn’t want to be beholden to the Constitution, he wants to remake government into his own image and he would prefer to install a dictatorship. If all praise is not given to him, he complains. If he legitimately looses an election, his desire is to overturn it, even by force if necessary. Every president and even every person has personal failings. It is the danger that he presents to the over throw of our democracy that bothers me.

this.

but, I would add his repeated notorious personal failings just reveal his complete lack of character, and that lack of character results in the extreme danger he presents to our democracy. Of course, a handful of Supreme Court picks makes up for it all, doesn’t it?