Camper dies in swing accident at Carolina Point camp

but this needs to be said; if we are going to do things like bungee jumping, zip lines, 120’ high swings, whitewater rafting, and the like, we “fundagelicals” need to get religion on the issue of safety. Lawyers in this area salivate when they see evidence that a group has neglected basic safety measures, to put it mildly.

(this is something of an issue for me because the church I’m attending narrowly avoided having a number of funerals because kids couldn’t be bothered to portage or wear life jackets on a canoe trip….)

Prayers and condolences to the family, but let’s take basic safety seriously.

Bert, I understand what you’re saying, but remember that people have died at amusement parks, too. We don’t know at this point if it was due to a lack of safety protocols, failure to abide by safety protocols by the staff, a camper unbuckling herself from safety equipment, equipment failure, or what.

[Greg Long]

Bert, I understand what you’re saying, but remember that people have died at amusement parks, too. We don’t know at this point if it was due to a lack of safety protocols, failure to abide by safety protocols by the staff, a camper unbuckling herself from safety equipment, equipment failure, or what.

Yes, they have, and it’s worth noting that when it does happen at such a place, there is a big to-do where you go through 8ds, FMEAs, and all kinds of things to make as certain as possible it doesn’t happen again. Hopefully it happens. If it doesn’t, lawyers will be loaded for bear the next time it happens, and if they don’t deal with it, it WILL happen again. It’s a question off when, not if.

One big reason I’m a bit intense here is because I’ve seen too many cases where people just “blew off” basic safety issues in our circles. Electrical panels blocked by cleaning chemicals (in NEC since 1899, BTW), laughing at kids not wearing life vests and such, not terribly concerned about making sure kids’ workers have background checks, and the like. My daughters noted that people responded to the incident on the river with “well, you could die driving”.

Well, yes, but we don’t tell drivers not to sweat not using a seat belt, or encourage them to knock back a few drinks before taking the wheel, do we? Using a life vest and portaging around rapids are every bit as basic as buckling up and driving sober. There are points where we’ve really got to get our safety thinking caps on.

[Bert Perry]

One big reason I’m a bit intense here is because I’ve seen too many cases where people just “blew off” basic safety issues in our circles.

I saw an instance in the late 90’s where a Baptist church was needing to get its youth group to an event 150 miles away. The group was larger than the 15 passengers their van would seat, so what did they do? They took out a couple of the bench seats and had a bunch of kids just sit loose (unbuckled) on the floor! 150 miles each way, @ 70 mph down the highway…

They made it both ways w/o incident, but what would have happened in a crash or a rollover? (Shudder…)

(BTW, I voiced my concern to the pastor, who simply shrugged it off.)

Tragic accidents are one thing, but “accidents just waiting to happen” are another.

Now I’m going to be fair here; I do not know and likely never will know whether the camp was negligent here. But that said, those who are concerned about safety might do well to read this, and any church that still uses vans to transport people (adult or child) needs to take a look here. I don’t know whether churches, camps, and schools are “behind the ball” here, but we can definitely improve.

Side note; vans are a big deal because they put a lot of weight over the rear wheels (increased risk of blowout) and have both a short wheelbase and a high center of mass—the classic failure mode is rear wheel blowout. You get more tire failure, and when it happens, it’s a much bigger (more lethal) deal than with a passenger car, minivan, or SUV. Had the situation Larry describes gone bad, you’re talking about at least half a dozen fatalities as kids would have been thrown from the vehicle before the vehicle rolled over them.

Churches, and their affiliated camps and schools, need to get a handle on issues like this, unless we desire to hand over the keys to the facility to a plaintiff’s lawyer after a tragedy.

What do you suggest? Chuck Phelps’ church rented professional tour buses (I think they rented them…they were certainly professional sized tour buses), and for whatever reason there was a major accident and we all know what happened!

This was at a Young Life camp, which is by NO MEANS a fundamentalist organization.

Young Life is a big movement with teens and college aged people. Does anyone out there have information about them other than what is on their website? Any past dealings with them?

I have attended a few meetings they have had on campus, and I can’t decide. They brought in speakers from Focus on the Family to talk about sexual issues for single adults, but they are deliberately vague on their statement of faith (ie we seek to improve the lives of all youth, etc. The name of Jesus is not overtly mentioned at all in the website, or at any meeting I went to.)

[Mark_Smith]

What do you suggest? Chuck Phelps’ church rented professional tour buses (I think they rented them…they were certainly professional sized tour buses), and for whatever reason there was a major accident and we all know what happened!

All I’m saying is that churches shouldn’t blithely flout safety concerns. The Phelps’ incident was a tragic accident. Like I said, “Tragic accidents are one thing, but “accidents just waiting to happen” are another.”

Cramming & overloading about 26 people into a van designed for 15, with a majority of them sitting unrestrained on the floor, is on the other hand an example of an “accident just waiting to happen.” It shows an utter disregard for safety concerns. As Bert pointed out, if a serious accident with injuries or deaths were to occur under such circumstances, that church would be criminally liable.

is all over campuses. And go to a meeting…there is little mention of Jesus. The adult mentors are too often from liberal leaning churches.

Jim, have you attended a Young Life meeting?

Does anyone here have any direct contact or experience with them?