A Look at Today’s Secular College Campus

Because I paid my way through college. I had very little time to “party”. I worked:

• At a chemical plant each Summer
• Sold shoes, worked for American Airlines, loaded newspapers on trucks, et cetera

[Bert Perry]

Don writes:

But what a tragedy when a real born-again young person gets into a spiritually hostile environment without the personal support system (friends, maturity, church, etc) to aid in maintaining a consistent Christian testimony. What a tragedy when in such an environment a real believer develops an alcohol problem or ends up pregnant or any number of other issues… all because they saved a few dollars going to the state university with the notion “how bad can it be?”

The question in my mind is that if 18 years of discipleship at the home church leaves a young person unable to find a church, find friends of good character, and resist sin, is it going to help to send them for four more years to the pastor’s alma mater and be immersed in more of the same teaching that left them unable to cope with adult life? Or are we more likely to send a lot of unsaved kids who speak “churchy” fluently to Bible college to subvert what they’re doing there?

You are assuming the “18 years of discipleship” status. Not all Christian homes provide much discipleship, though the parents are sincere but perhaps themselves poorly discipled believers. There are many such in local churches. It is impossible to insist “you will be discipled,” individuals have to see the importance and take the steps to involve themselves with the resources available. And of course every church will vary in its ability to build disciples. I realize we are commanded to do better, but reality is that on average, we don’t.

Furthermore, often young people may come into a good church and get some level of discipleship for two or three years, but then they are sent into the college world. If that means leaving home and going somewhere far away from their accountability structure (i.e., their own local church), I would far rather have them go to a good Christian college if possible. Alternatively, I would try to connect them with a good church in the area, or some kind of campus ministry.

When you couple weak discipleship with an average level of maturity for 18yr olds, well… the odds are against them in an environment like a secular college. I would say for the average Christian young person who goes to a good Christian college, the odds of maturity and discipleship happening are far better than attending a secular college. There are no guarantees of course, but on average I think this will hold up.

BTW, I like Ed’s advice in the post above. While the evangelical college ministries have issues, some of them do understand discipleship principles. I particularly like the Navigators methods (I am more familiar with them than others).

[Jim]

Because I paid my way through college. I had very little time to “party”. I worked:

• At a chemical plant each Summer
• Sold shoes, worked for American Airlines, loaded newspapers on trucks, et cetera

I didn’t live on campus, didn’t join a frat (several tried to recruit me), and never attended a “college party.” I was far too busy taking a full course load, working 36 hours a week (year round), and consistently attending and serving in church.

Bonus: I managed to graduate debt-free.

Don, agreed that it is in question whether many in the church have been actively discipled. The question I’ve got is whether the experience at Bible college is going to be materially different from that in church—the degree to which pastors work the system they learned there is amazing to me, really. One guy I knew (and many here know of) was basically working the same system he’d learned at BJU 60 years later—yes, the same list of rules, more or less, that he’d dealt with in the fifties. So when I combine this reality with the reality that most kids in church have more or less been there since they were in diapers, I’m just really skeptical that they’re going to get anything new in Bible college. That skepticism is, again, fed by what I’ve seen out of Bible college graduates—they’re really no more advanced in their faith, in my view, than kids coming out of secular schools.

Which is a long way of saying something I think we’d both agree on; churches nationwide need to wrap their minds around the need for discipleship for all members. All too often, we seem to think that if we’ve got volunteers working Sunday School and most people are listening to “Christian” music, things are OK, and they emphatically are not.

And per what Jim and Larry note, I also found working 10-20 hours per week (math TA and fast food chef) very helpful in avoiding the temptations of the flesh in college. Especially helpful was when drunks would walk into the “Brody Break Station” and demand oatmeal at 11pm or so. Somehow the whole party scene didn’t seem so attractive after that.

[Bert Perry]

So when I combine this reality with the reality that most kids in church have more or less been there since they were in diapers, I’m just really skeptical that they’re going to get anything new in Bible college. That skepticism is, again, fed by what I’ve seen out of Bible college graduates—they’re really no more advanced in their faith, in my view, than kids coming out of secular schools.

On this point, all I can say is that there was a time when the leading fundamentalist colleges did an excellent job in discipleship. Some of the schools are no more, and some have changed so as to make a different ethos their goal. Its a failure of leadership, in my opinion.

However, there may be other factors at work in those who you see coming out of secular schools.

[Bert Perry] Which is a long way of saying something I think we’d both agree on; churches nationwide need to wrap their minds around the need for discipleship for all members. All too often, we seem to think that if we’ve got volunteers working Sunday School and most people are listening to “Christian” music, things are OK, and they emphatically are not.

What else are you supposed to use in Sunday School but volunteers?

Local church discipleship faces the challenge of motivating individuals to actually want to be discipled. The college years are critical times for setting the course of life and I can think of no better place to foster discipleship than a good Christian college. Unfortunately, very few colleges meet my expectations in this area.

[Don Johnson]

Bert Perry wrote:

Which is a long way of saying something I think we’d both agree on; churches nationwide need to wrap their minds around the need for discipleship for all members. All too often, we seem to think that if we’ve got volunteers working Sunday School and most people are listening to “Christian” music, things are OK, and they emphatically are not.

What else are you supposed to use in Sunday School but volunteers?

Local church discipleship faces the challenge of motivating individuals to actually want to be discipled. The college years are critical times for setting the course of life and I can think of no better place to foster discipleship than a good Christian college. Unfortunately, very few colleges meet my expectations in this area.

My point about Sunday School is not that we ought to be using someone else besides volunteers, but that at times our standards of “things are going right” is “we have people in place”, not “we have people being discipled well.” :^) Totally consistent with what I think you’re saying, and along those lines, I’m praying that I will be able to argue with you in your comment “very few colleges meet my expectations in this area.”. I am guessing that you are, too.

[Don Johnson]

Local church discipleship faces the challenge of motivating individuals to actually want to be discipled.

Isn’t it up to the shepherd to lead/guide the sheep? It seems too easy to simply point to the flock and say, “There they go, wandering off again!” Those who claim any measure of maturity in Christ sometimes need to assume greater accountability for the discipleship of less mature believers.

“And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.” (Ephesians 4:11-16 ESV)

I would assert that in many cases it is not an “individuals” problem but a “local church” problem, in that local churches sometimes hinder rather then help the discipleship process of believers by neglecting priorities or by focusing on misplaced priorities.

Larry said:

Isn’t it up to the shepherd to lead/guide the sheep? It seems too easy to simply point to the flock and say, “There they go, wandering off again!” Those who claim any measure of maturity in Christ sometimes need to assume greater accountability for the discipleship of less mature believers.

This really hits at the core of what I’m trying to say about the weakness of Bible college; the pastors learn their techniques and even habits from Bible college (on purpose or accidentally), and then they pass these explicit and implicit assumptions and habits on to their congregations. So if this is true—the extent can certainly be debated—then one would have to introduce that sending kids from these churches to their pastors’ alma maters could be very ineffectual in making them into disciples. Pastors are responsible, and those who train pastors are, transitively speaking, responsible.

Now to be fair, not every kid goes to his pastor’s Bible college, and many pastors do indeed neglect some of the things that are taught—no education, no matter how good, is a guarantee. That noted, however, I think you’d be able to take a look at graduates of various schools and find patterns—patterns that Bible colleges and pastors ought to heed.

I think the “danger” of secular campus life is wildly overblown. It’s called real life, in the real world, surrounded by real sin, real temptation, and a real decision by an 18-yr old about whether his faith is genuine, or just borrowed from his parents. Little Johnny will presumably want to work in the real world at some point, right?

The writer of the article remarked:

A Christian young person should seriously consider the possibility of two or four years of training at a sound Fundamental Bible college prior to enrolling at a secular college. This training will mature his faith, ground him in God’s Word, protect him from fierce spiritual attacks, and give him a solid foundation upon which to stand for Christ

I think that is the local church’s role. This really goes to what role a university has in the life of a young Christian. I believe it is a toolbox, as is Seminary. It is not a local church, and it does not exist to play the role of a local church. The writer is obviously well-intentioned and rightly concerned with secularism, but I believe it’s very easy to become too insular.

[TylerR]

I think that is the local church’s role. This really goes to what role a university has in the life of a young Christian. I believe it is a toolbox, as is Seminary. It is not a local church, and it does not exist to play the role of a local church. The writer is obviously well-intentioned and rightly concerned with secularism, but I believe it’s very easy to become too insular.

I totally agree.

A few years ago, Kevin Bauder ruffled some feathers when he said this about Christian day schools:

“A second reason that Christian schools are in decline is because they do not generally produce a better quality of Christian. Granted, the environment of a Christian school does shield its students from the most brutal influences of the secular school environment, such as rampant drug use and open promiscuity. It also grants Christianity a normative status, so that a student’s faith is not overtly and constantly under attack. Nevertheless, graduates of Christian schools do not seem to be noticeably more spiritually minded than Christian graduates of public schools. The real test is in what happens to Christian school students after they graduate. How many of them are walking with the Lord five years later? The proportions do not seem markedly higher for Christian school alumni than for other Christians of the same age.” - http://www.centralseminary.edu/resources/nick-of-time/205-the-christian…

If this is true on the high school level (and in my experience I think Bauder is right), then why should anyone maintain or expect that outcomes would be any different on the college level?

Bible colleges certainly serve their students (and the church) in valuable ways, but to assert or promote the belief that they unquestionably provide superior discipleship opportunities/options to their students that a local church can’t provide is dismissive of the Biblical role of the local church. Where, when, and how did the notion arise that we have to ship our 18 year olds off to a quasi-finishing school as far as their spiritual maturity is concerned? Frankly, It surprises me when I see pastors who appear to believe this.

[Larry Nelson]

I would assert that in many cases it is not an “individuals” problem but a “local church” problem, in that local churches sometimes hinder rather then help the discipleship process of believers by neglecting priorities or by focusing on misplaced priorities.

Well, a wise philosopher once said, “You can lead a horse to water, but if you can get him to float on his back, then you’ve got something.”

Certainly pastors should encourage discipleship. In my experience, I’ve never met a pastor who was against this concept. I suppose discipleship programs vary, but the most basic approach is one on one accountability to Bible study and personal growth. That takes time and commitment. And it lasts only as long as the disciple is keen on making it last. I’ve never met a pastor who wouldn’t take the time with someone who was keen to grow.

What would you suggest, since you seem to know that local churches hinder the discipleship process?

Don, you wrote:

In my experience, I’ve never met a pastor who was against this concept

Nor have!. But, I think the problem is that Pastors don’t do discipleship well. Are their sermons deep enough to provoke actual critical thought? Do they make opportunities for more personal discipleship through men’s and ladies bible studies? Is the Youth Pastor a serious man, or a joker who plays games with the teens? Do they develop people to take on these tasks?

I just don’t think we do a good job in this arena. I certainly don’t think I did. I don’t think it’s apathy or indifference; I believe it’s bad execution of a good idea.

I am no pastor, nor am I a genius in the business of disciple-making, but I concur with Tyler in that I’d suggest many do not know how to make disciples. It’s not that they don’t want to, but they just don’t know how. I concur with a couple other things he notes, especially the question of whether the sermon is deep enough to encourage the congregation to think, vs. sermons where the pastor spells out everything the congregation is to do.

One little thing to add is the question of how it’s done. My kids’ youth pastor is working Faith Baptist BC’s “green house” concept fairly well (the verbiage looks good, my daughters like it), and I remember doing a lot with Robert Coleman’s “The Master Plan of Discipleship” back in college. A key thing, IMO, is Coleman’s contention that there is a reason Jesus had 12 disciples instead of filling the synagogue with a lecture with 100 students, as well as an inner circle of Peter, James, and John.

One advantage, really, of the secular college is that a college ministry there is likely to have a broader range of spiritual growth than a Bible college—if they do things well, they’ll have a lot more new believers, at least. The big killer of discipleship, as far as I can tell and remember, is the pressure for numbers NOW. Many succumb to the pressure of numbers and never develop depth, spiritually speaking.

My two cents, and a bargain at a nickel less!

Certainly pastors should encourage discipleship. In my experience, I’ve never met a pastor who was against this concept. I suppose discipleship programs vary, but the most basic approach is one on one accountability to Bible study and personal growth. That takes time and commitment. And it lasts only as long as the disciple is keen on making it last. I’ve never met a pastor who wouldn’t take the time with someone who was keen to grow.

One other key thing is highlighted in bold; are we assuming that the person to be discipled approaches the pastor, or does the pastor approach the person to be discipled? (not accusing Don of anything here, of course) The best disciplers approach the person to be discipled.

Kinda like if you want to share a banana split, you’ve got to ask her out to the ice cream parlour.