Only 1 in 4 Americans see Donald Trump as a man of faith

And of course Americans are uniquely qualified to make that judgment, considering everything that is now acceptable in American society.

Wally, I’m not sure I understand what you mean. Do you consider Donald Trump to be a Christian?

I don’t know President Trump. From what I’ve seen, his life doesn’t show any evidence of knowing Christ. Politicians are hard to evaluate because they tend to say what particular groups want to hear since (being cynical) the first job of a politician is to get re-elected.

My main point is very simple: Americans in general are not qualified to judge anyone’s faith since most Americans support homosexual marriage, premarital sex, recreational marijuana, and don’t go to church regularly, particularly a Bible-believing church. So I don’t give much weight to these surveys. They are interesting but not much more.

Now I understand.

is a Christian? He says he is and Christian leaders who have been close to him say he was converted since presidency…

Why should we not give him the benefit of the faith?

It’s one thing to appreciate the changes Trump has made to roll back destructive liberal advances. It’s quite another to turn a blind eye to his words and actions which are anything but those of a Christian. By their fruits you shall know them.

doing all kinds of things “un-Christian.” Let’s see… slavery? Then 80 years of segregation. Divorce. Cursing. Cheating. Lying. Pornography. Selfishness. Deception. Cheating.

How many pastors have been destroyed by “deacons”? And votes in churches? How many marriages destroyed by the actions of church members? How many kids abused by church members?

And you talk about Trump being “unChristian” like you decide that?

A man of faith? Trump does make some clumsy claims to faith. Are they credible? One would have to consider recent actions more than life-long actions. In 2016 I voted for the non-Hillary viable candidate, which was Trump. I knew he made some claims to, or at least appeals to, Christianity. But honestly, prior to his first term, I assumed that the “Christian” aspects of his claims would, once elected, evaporate. I did not expect conservative judges, nor did I expect him to continue claims to care about Christianity, calls to prayer and the like.

Over the last 15 years we have become a nation that tolerates - no, celebrates! - many of the things that God hates. Even many ‘decent’ church-going people. Remember that in 2004, when he was running for president, Obama assured Americans that “marriage is between a man and a woman.” Can you imagine a Democrat saying that now? Of course, this was not a honest statement by Obama. It was what he calculated would help him get elected.

Fast forward to 2015, when every Democratic candidate supported gay marriage and some Republicans did too. Or take abortion. 25 years ago, genuine debates happened in newspapers and wherever politics was discussed about whether abortion should be legal. And conservatives, Christians at least, seemed to be genuinely interested in overturning Roe-vs-Wade. Now we don’t hear that and Christians, though not liking it, seem resigned to accepting that it will not change.

Wanting to lay aside these types of issues, many in the Republican Party seemed ready to shift to fiscal conservatism and embrace social tolerance. In 2015, my suspicion was that Trump was going to end up being a fiscal conservative. I thought his Christian faith overtures were no more real than Obama’s commitment to biblical marriage.

Even now, ask yourself what would happen to Trump if he had done that. If he quit the calls to prayer, appointed liberal judges, ever bothered having his photo taken with a Bible, spoke warmly about gay marriages, and put a LBGTQXYZ on his staff, would Christians have abandoned him? I doubt it. We know we’ve lost the culture war. The irrational hatred the press has for him would probably never have risen to where it has. Sure some in the press will not be happy until we are a Socialist country, but some care most about the social issues.

As GN said, Trump certainly behaves like someone who has been not a Christian his entire life. Not just not a Christian-but someone running away from Christ s hard as he could. If he believes in Jesus now, I do not expect he would suddenly be entirely sanctified. I don’t believe it works like that.

But there is simply (by my calculations) almost zero political value in his (clumsy and inconsistent though they often are) Christian claims and choices.

So my response to GN is that the non-Christian things you see in his soul are consistent with a long life pursuing the pleasures and ambitions of the world. If he has recently come to faith, then in a Nicomachean or Thomist sense one would expect to find his soul is still formed in the pattern of the loves and habits of the dark world.

On the other hand, if he was insincere, I find it very hard to imagine that he wouldn’t just drop it. Politically, he would surely be way better off as a fiscal conservative, social liberal.

[Mark_Smith] doing all kinds of things “un-Christian.” Let’s see… slavery? Then 80 years of segregation. Divorce. Cursing. Cheating. Lying. Pornography. Selfishness. Deception. Cheating.

How many pastors have been destroyed by “deacons”? And votes in churches? How many marriages destroyed by the actions of church members? How many kids abused by church members?

And you talk about Trump being “unChristian” like you decide that?

Mark, professing Christians do a lot of wicked things. Doesn’t make them true believers. We also know that even true believers can sin grievously. Remember what Jesus taught about the sheep and the goats and the wheat and the tares? It wouldn’t surprise me if a large portion of our congregations are just cultural Christians. That is what Edwards faced too.

The difference between a professing believer and true believer? They live a life of repentance and continual sanctification.

Does that typify Donald Trump?

[T Howard]

Does that typify Donald Trump?

I don’t know. I have never talked with him. Have you?

That’s my point. How do you judge the spiritual status of someone you’ve never met?

[Mark_Smith]

T Howard wrote:

Does that typify Donald Trump?

I don’t know. I have never talked with him. Have you?

That’s my point. How do you judge the spiritual status of someone you’ve never met?

By the visible fruit evident in his life. Isn’t Trump on record saying he doesn’t need to ask God for forgiveness for his sin? If so, that’s a significant statement.

others you don’t know. That’s on you. And if you are going to judge Trump, make sure to judge others the same way and make sure to be as vocal about it.

Your link is behind a paywall by the way.

[Mark_Smith]

others you don’t know. That’s on you. And if you are going to judge Trump, make sure to judge others the same way and make sure to be as vocal about it.

Your link is behind a paywall by the way.

Jesus tells us to judge a tree by its fruit and the heart by what comes out of it. Can we know for sure, of course not. But, that doesn’t mean we aren’t to evaluate a man’s (or woman’s) life based not only what they profess but also on how they live. In other words, Christians are not only to believe the gospel but also to walk according to the gospel. That is what I preach to my congregation on a regular basis.

[Mark_Smith]

Why should we not give him the benefit of the faith?

Because what someone says is not sufficient. The Bible is clear that a converted person exhibits the fruits of the Spirit. Do we see these exhibited in his life? I would say no. The church is uniquely qualified to identify this and when it doesn’t (someone says that they are converted but do not exhibit the fruits of the Spirit) than they are a false teacher or an antichrist.

But judge all your political leaders the same way. I don’t know one that passes the “judge by their fruits test.”