Matt Chandler's Village Church in Church Discipline Controversy
The Village Church: Why we put wife of man with paedophile leanings under church discipline
It Takes a Village Covenant to Raise a Bitter Root
A Few Thoughts on The Village Church Controversy
The Village Church email on 5/23/15 to covenant members about Karen Hinkley and Jordan Root
Matt Chandler, The Village Church offer apology to Karen Hinkley
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[JC] \situations like Jordan and Karen happen in churches regularly. No two marriage breakups are alike and no one is claiming this was handled perfectly. However, the reason this is national news is because it is another chance to elicit 1000+ comments condemning Bible believing churches.
I’ve been in fundamental churches for 45 years … I’ve seen a lot … but never known of a case of a missionary who was into child pornography.
However, the reason this is national news is because it is another chance to elicit 1000+ comments condemning Bible believing churches.
I disagree. It’s highlighting people in a position of authority who are using that position in appropriately and causing harm. They obviously aren’t policing themselves and have put themselves as above reproach. Would we see this response if it didn’t make as many waves in the media? Why did it take this media frenzy for them to take a step back? Is it hitting them in their pocketbook?
[JC]Jonathan Charles wrote:
Now in the secular media:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/31/megachurch-stay-with-yo…
Sadly, situations like Jordan and Karen happen in churches regularly. No two marriage breakups are alike and no one is claiming this was handled perfectly. However, the reason this is national news is because it is another chance to elicit 1000+ comments condemning Bible believing churches.
Well the Daily Beast / Newsweek (it’s a merged company) has an obvious liberal stance (see Newsweek / Bible).
My take is that the D/B got the basic facts of the case right (and linked to important documents).
They show their bias here:
In many ways, TVC’s appeal doesn’t make much sense. The church experience that Chandler has popularized tends to be a more rigid-leaning, Bible-thumping, male-dominating, faith-intensive environment—a far cry from most of today’s more popular seeker-friendly hipster-filled churches.
rigid-leaning, Bible-thumping, male-dominating,
It’s not liberal to say rigid leaning when their actions demonstrate it. It is rigid to not allow a member to leave, especially under Karen’s circumstances. Is it wrong to say “male dominating” when it is male dominating? Did Karen get a voice? Was she heard? Did they provide any female leader for support? Why not? The onus was put solely on Karen. She was forced to go through hoops, her pedophile spouse wasn’t even put in church discipline.That sure sounds male-dominating to me, but it might be difficult to see if you are male. I hope you are considering my words from a female perspective.
[Julie Anne] \Why did it take this media frenzy for them to take a step back? Is it hitting them in their pocketbook?
Had not bloggers and others been involved, Karen H. would have not experienced justice at all. Here’s a woman who needs our prayers and moral support.
So the church has the right to continue the process of “church discipline,” even when a member resigns, to determine whether they could legitimately give a letter of recommendation to another church that the member left as a member in good standing. So TVC did nothing wrong in that respect.
That may be tradition, but consider the implications of this when church leaders are using their position of authority to abuse and no one is protecting the church member, nor holding the abusing staff accountable. Do you see how this tradition could be used as a weapon?
I’ve been in fundamental churches for 45 years … I’ve seen a lot … but never known of a case of a missionary who was into child pornography.
I personally know a man who was on the mission field for 13 years and sexually abused boys. He was caught and sent home. The mission leaders knew why, but they failed to report. The pedophile came back to US telling everyone they left because the Communists came in and they had to be evacuated by helicopter. That part is true, but the real reason was because of sexually abusing boys.
A few years ago, we heard he was going to go back to the field temporarily for translation work sponsored by Wycliffe Bible Translators. We reported what we knew to Wycliffe. They immediately canceled the trip, put a team together to investigate, and interview references. They were able to establish what we said was true, banned him from being a part of Wycliffe or setting one foot on their campuses. They also reported to police. This man has a clean record because the statute of limitations has expired. We know of at least 20 boys he sexually abused. We have no clue how many he abused on the mission field.
I was very impressed with Wycliffe in how they handled our report. They were amazing, even providing counseling for family members and also set up a plan for the family.
The mission field is a prime place for pedophiles to do their evil deeds because it is a place where there is little supervision. The same can be said for some Christian MK boarding schools, sadly.
Had not bloggers and others been involved, Karen H. would have not experienced justice at all. Here’s a woman who needs our prayers and moral support.
Amen!
And shame on those evil women bloggers. ::::sarcasm:::: :)
- First of all Bixby’s blog on “groupthink” is a good background read.
- If everyone (in leadership) is saying “yes” at the same time, one might question if there is what Bixby calls “parity”. Sorting through complex issues should be messy & time consuming. Elders who have strong personalities and have strong institutional power are vulnerable to making big mistakes. (We have been reading Ezra. He had to deal with the difficult issue of intermarriage (an OT issue). Not everyone agreed with him. There appears to have been legitimate dissent (Ezra 10:15)
- I think that discipline in general is not completely understood. Re Jordan. Has he really repented? I don’t know. TVC thinks so and has him on a restorative path within the body of Christ (and this in my view is a good thing). He will never (nor should he) ever work with children again and likely will never be in a leadership position. But the church is for sinners.
- They failed to think through and protect Karen. She did not have an advocate among the leadership. She was their missionary too! They even inadvertently quit their financial support of her.
- I think SIM handled themselves well enough
- In my view Jordan’s sin should have been spelled out: 1 Timothy 5:20, “Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear”. They were too general as if the adults in the congregation could not handle the facts
- They apparently were ignorant of Texas’ annulment laws. They should have consulted an attorney
- I think they tried to help Jordan and left Karen hanging. That’s my view
What I see in general:
- There is a natural (sinful) tendency to cover up sin. This goes back to Adam hiding from God! Not a new thing. Ministries did not want to risk their reputation … and so on
- There is a tendency to place some blame on the victims. Goes like this: “Surely a man of God could not have done such and such unless there was a seductress …”
- There is a tendency to be more concerned about the perpetrator than the victims.
- Some of these cases are so bizarre they seem to come out of left field.The Apostle Paul had no idea of the problems of the Internet and pornography. Could not have imagined a man using VPN to anonymously view porn.
[Julie Anne]Of course, but so could church discipline (as it often has). You’re not advocating for churches no longer exercising church discipline simply because it has been abused, are you?So the church has the right to continue the process of “church discipline,” even when a member resigns, to determine whether they could legitimately give a letter of recommendation to another church that the member left as a member in good standing. So TVC did nothing wrong in that respect.
That may be tradition, but consider the implications of this when church leaders are using their position of authority to abuse and no one is protecting the church member, nor holding the abusing staff accountable. Do you see how this tradition could be used as a weapon?
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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
For what the Daily Best did, because they actually asked (and tried to answer) the questions I had. We believers ought to be more open about this kind of thing, really. For that matter, i think that TVC’s apology should have spelled things out more clearly, too.
I am also waiting for the other shoe to drop in this matter. Given the offender’s lengthy history working with children, did he physically victimize any of them? I hope that I am absolutely wrong in this, but my guess is yes.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Greg Long]We also have to keep in mind the purpose of church discipline. One, and probably the primary one, is to try to draw the offender to repentance. But, it is also intended to be both a teaching tool and warning to the rest of the church, which is why church discipline, once initialized, should be seen through to the conclusion even if the offender bails.For those of you struggling with why a church would/could/should “discipline” someone who resigns membership, obviously you cannot prevent someone from leaving your church. That is not the point, neither is it some kind of refusal of individual soul liberty or some kind of insistence on doling out punishment. We have to be reminded of a custom that has fallen out of use, and that is a letter of transfer. If a person applies for membership to a church who has already professed faith and been baptized, the custom was to ask for a letter of recommendation from a previous church to ensure that they left that church as a member in good standing and not as the result of church discipline.
So the church has the right to continue the process of “church discipline,” even when a member resigns, to determine whether they could legitimately give a letter of recommendation to another church that the member left as a member in good standing. So TVC did nothing wrong in that respect.
HSAT, from what I’ve read they made several missteps that make me think the apology was a good idea.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
[Julie Anne]Julie, any legitimate practice can be corrupted and abused. The possibility of abuse is not enough bt itself to abandon a legitimate practice.So the church has the right to continue the process of “church discipline,” even when a member resigns, to determine whether they could legitimately give a letter of recommendation to another church that the member left as a member in good standing. So TVC did nothing wrong in that respect.
That may be tradition, but consider the implications of this when church leaders are using their position of authority to abuse and no one is protecting the church member, nor holding the abusing staff accountable. Do you see how this tradition could be used as a weapon?
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
One of the reasons I urge a bit of caution is that we may not know all the facts.
I’ve been in ministry long enough to have seen multiple situations similar to Jordan and Karen. Specifically, in another situation a couple in our church leadership structure presented a case for formal divorce based on what seemed to be a sad yet justifiable reason. Subsequently, it emerged that one party had an undeclared ‘romantic interest’ that was hastening the motive for ending the marriage. If that had been more widely known, then some people who reluctantly supported the divorce would have had a different view.
Now, I am not saying that Karen is rushing to end this because of some secret lover, but I am saying that blogs and news articles may not provide the full picture. From what I have read, TVC have not said they won’t accept an end of the marriage, just that a member-covenant process should be followed. So, we also should be slow and careful in expressing our judgment through online blogs, like Sharper Iron, particularly if we have no personal knowledge of the people or situation.
Discussion