Pregnant at 18. Hailed by Abortion Foes. Punished by Christian School
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Another observation that can be made here is that churches sometimes get so caught up in the pro-life movement that everything else becomes secondary. The sin of immorality is brushed aside when a self-righteous girl speaks of her sacrifice in keeping her baby. Biblical soulwinning takes a back seat when churches join up with various religious groups to oppose abortion.
Abortion is murder. It is a grievous sin that nations will be judged for. However, I’m afraid that opposition to abortion can easily become “the tail that wags the dog” in our local churches.
I think this thread gives us a glimpse of one of the battlefields of the civil war within Fundamentalism. It’s amazing how many Fundamental ministries go “soft on sin” when a member of the leadership’s family falls into open sin
I don’t think it’s as simple as ‘soft on sin’.
I think that some of the pushback you’re seeing - and I do agree with you that this is part of the Convergent/Fundamental debate - is that the Fundamental side is more concerned with God’s wrath on sin and judgment of it while the ‘Convergent’ side (whoever that is) is more concerned about restoring errant sinners. Not two sides of the same coin, but two different conversations entirely.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Don Johnson]Bert Perry wrote:
And that’s really the reason I’m coming down fairly harshly on them; the first people we hold accountable are those with authority, not those under authority.
Don, perhaps James 3:1 has eluded your attention? The one that says teachers will be judged more harshly? Unless we’d doubt that school board members are teachers, we must conclude that no less than Scripture tells us to judge those with authority more harshly than those without. The same accountability was given to the Old Testament kings vis-a-vis the populace, the priests and prophets, and such.
You want less scrutiny, Don, GN, and other pastors on this site? Change jobs.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Jim]http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Pregnant-Maryland-Teen-Barred-Fr…
The Herald-Mail of Hagerstown reported Maddi Runkles, 18, was awarded her diploma Saturday morning in a ceremony at the Benevola United Methodist Church in Boonsboro. The paper reported about 140 friends and family came to support the teenager during the hour-long ceremony.
Runkles wore a white cap and gown and got a standing ovation. She didn’t give a speech.
Notice here where the girl’s graduation took place; at a United Methodist church. I think it’s fair to say that the Runkles family has pretty much had it with the fundamentalism they’ve seen. I think it’s fair as well to assume that a significant portion of the school’s constituents, who know more than do I from the paper articles, are in her corner as well. They appear to have showed up with little notice.
Quibble about how the bride price is, or is not, paid in the modern era. Quibble over how the mild treatment of the woman at the well, the Samaritan woman, the man caught in incest, others caught in fornication, and more are to be interpreted. That’s fine. But I want each person to know that one of the quickest ways to put out a church’s candle is unthinking defense of authoritarianism in the church. Pile up consequences and punishments, and people are going to bail on you. This is especially the case when there’s really not a lot of Biblical defense for that position—you can argue until the cows come home that since it’s not prohibited, it’s allowed, but that really doesn’t help you when the family is asking why you’re doing what you’re doing, and the guy you chose to head the school’s board stepped down in protest.
On the light side, Jay pointed out that not many of us would like to be judged according to the cultural standards of the 15th century BC, or even the New Testament era. Fair enough. I’ve read enough history to get a smile out of that. But quite frankly, the bride price system sounds a lot more humane than some of the things I’ve seen advocated here. And knowing a fair number of people who’ve dealt with family court, I dare suggest it sounds more benign than what we’ve got today in our laws, where the courts can come back for more at any given time. It’s not a chief cause of suicide for no reason, brothers.
And really, if you’ve not heard people telling you about this, you really ought to ask yourself if you’re inadvertently driving away the wounded by how you deal with divorce, fornication, and the like.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Don, perhaps James 3:1 has eluded your attention? The one that says teachers will be judged more harshly? Unless we’d doubt that school board members are teachers, we must conclude that no less than Scripture tells us to judge those with authority more harshly than those without. The same accountability was given to the Old Testament kings vis-a-vis the populace, the priests and prophets, and such.
You want less scrutiny, Don, GN, and other pastors on this site? Change jobs.
Jesus had a couple of words to say on this topic as well:
So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” -John 10:7-18
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
On the other hand, the fact that the Runkles chose a female-pastored UMC Church to hold the graduation in is bothersome to me. Why didn’t they hold the graduation at their own evangelical church? Do they attend this UMC church?
We cannot let the world and those with loose associations dictate how we deal with sin in our Fundamental churches.
I have over 30 years experience in Christian education and I’ve had heard leaders repeatedly remind us that, as Christian educators, we were not in “redemptive” work–that was the work of the local church.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
The Christian Day School contrasted with the Church:
- The CDS acts to protect the CDS
- The so-called metaphor of “a museum for saints”
- The sinner (the PG kids Maddi) might possibly “infect” other “good kids”
- The CDS “reputation” is endangered with a real life baby bumping fornicator right in its midst
- The Church acts (or should act):
- The so-called metaphor of “a hospital for sinners”
- Acts in accord with Christ as the physician: “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” (Mark 2:17)
- The grace of the gospel won the 5 time married, “the one whom you now have is not your husband” Samaritan woman (John 4) & the “woman was caught in adultery, in the very act” (John 8 )
I suggest that more was “taught” to the Heritage kids in the Maddi treatment than they could possibly learn in 4 years of Bible & chapel. “Maddi” is what those kids will remember for life!
You call this proper use of Scripture, Bert? You really haven’t got a clue about what that verse means, and we have to deal with the whole of Scripture, not pull some isolated passage out of context that we think satisfies our point.
I’ll leave it at that. But the spirit of this age is alive and well on this thread and amply displayed by you and others.
[Bert Perry]Don Johnson wrote:
Bert Perry wrote:
And that’s really the reason I’m coming down fairly harshly on them; the first people we hold accountable are those with authority, not those under authority.
Don, perhaps James 3:1 has eluded your attention? The one that says teachers will be judged more harshly? Unless we’d doubt that school board members are teachers, we must conclude that no less than Scripture tells us to judge those with authority more harshly than those without. The same accountability was given to the Old Testament kings vis-a-vis the populace, the priests and prophets, and such.
You want less scrutiny, Don, GN, and other pastors on this site? Change jobs.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Don, you object to perceived (not actual) prooftexting with an ad hominem fallacy and zero actual evidence?
(for reference, note I also pointed to how Jesus, the real prophets, and the historians blame those in authority first,so it wasn’t simply a prooftext, so you were not only insulting, but also dead wrong)
Again, great example why a lot of thinking people are leaving fundamental churches like a barn that hasn’t been cleaned out in way too long. Biblically speaking, and really practically speaking, authority comes with responsibility, and no sane person would want it any other way.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Bert,
Please get ahold of yourself. Neither Don, nor I, nor any pastor has complained of too much scrutiny. I am objecting to you and others judging the actions of the HCA board without Biblical objectivity. If you can show from Scripture that the board has violated Biblical authority, please do so.
I don’t believe anyone on this thread objects to the HCA board or anyone else being judged by the standard of God’s Word. I welcome it. But a good many of us do object to seeing the board of HCA judged according to subjective human opinion. What they did was within reasonable options. It doesn’t really matter if that’s the way you or I or anyone else would have handled it. I applaud the earlier account of how a school handled the two students who committed fornication in a car. But some might consider even that too harsh? Who can say when human subjectivity, not the Bible, becomes our guide? That school was well within their rights to handle it as they deemed best. And so is HCA. Maddi agreed to the rules of the school, and the authority of the Administration and Board to deal with rules violations when she chose to enroll. If she didn’t like the rules and prescribed punishments. she could have chosen not to attend. That would have been honorable. To object after she is guilty of a serious offense is too late. That is dishonorable.
Scripture teaches obedience to human authority unless an authority requires that we disobey a command of God. Maddi’s case is clearly not a “We must obey God rather than man” situation. Maddi did not like her punishment. It is common for sinners to dislike the consequences of their sin. It is also troubling when sinners are more concerned about consequences than their offense. An encouraging response from Maddi would be, “I sinned. I am sorry for the harm I have done to the honor of Christ and the poor example I have set before others. I accept my punishment and will endeavor to demonstrate a contrite heart by meekness and commitment to righteousness in the days to come. Please forgive me for the grief I have caused.”
G. N. Barkman
No, GN, your very note indicates that I read you, and Don, quite fairly; the Bible simply does not give us the high view of authority you posit. The Scriptures are full of authorities being rebuked, from the prophets’ rebukes of David and a host of other kings to unknown rabbis like John the Baptist and Jesus rebuking the Pharisees, scribes, and high priests. Samuel and Eli were both rebuked for the behavior of their children and (implicitly) their poor parenting. Put simply, when a spiritual leader does not show the character of Christ, he is fair game for a well deserved rebuke.
In this case, if the punishments do not represent the grace and gentleness Jesus shows in John 4 and John 8, and Paul shows in 1 Cor. 6 and 2 Cor. 2:3-11, then the school board deserves rebuke. And, you know what? That is exactly the case.
Really, this is the same reason that parents are told not to exasperate their children in Ephesians 6, and the same reason that husbands are not to be “harsh with” their wives in 1 Peter 3:7, and not to be “bitter with” their wives in Colossians 3:18-19. Biblical authority by sinful people simply doesn’t go where you say it does, and the Scripture clearly notes a LOT of cases where spiritual leaders, kings, prophets, and priests are rebuked despite not having forced anyone to sin.
Sorry, GN, but you’re not exactly shining with Biblical wisdom in that comment. Again, if we follow the school board here and lead with punishment instead of mercy, we are going to end up with a lot of young people showing up as empty pews. Like Jim noted, they’ve learned from how Maddi was treated, and a bunch of them were most likely at that Methodist church.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
One of the major arguments for scolding the HCA Board is that this kind of behavior is driving people away from Fundamentalism. Although I have my own criticisms of some elements of Fundamentalism, empty pews is pretty low on my list. Numbers is seldom a good indicator of fidelity to Biblical truth. In times of spiritual declension, those who are most faithful to the Bible will often experience declining numbers. We live in an age of “coolness” over fidelity. Lower commitment Christianity is very attractive to many. The solution to declining numbers is not to go with the flow. It’s to preach the Word when it’s out of season, and pray for God to change hearts. He is able, and He still honors prayer and serious commitment to Christ. Reformation, not concession is most pleasing to Christ.
G. N. Barkman
And so is HCA. Maddi agreed to the rules of the school, and the authority of the Administration and Board to deal with rules violations when she chose to enroll. If she didn’t like the rules and prescribed punishments. she could have chosen not to attend. That would have been honorable. To object after she is guilty of a serious offense is too late. That is dishonorable.
The HCA board took two days to deliberate and settle on a set of penalties for Maddi. Then they changed those penalties three times after appeals from her and her family. To argue that if Maddi ‘could have chosen not to attend’ if ‘she didn’t like the penalties’ doesn’t even make sense because even HCA didn’t know what they would do or where they would end up.
Frankly, the more I read in this thread, the more I really wonder what kind of limits people would put on the disciplinary power than a school has over its’ students. I mean, from the way some of these posts have sounded, the Christian school, not a local church, is responsible to follow the final step of discipline in Matthew 18:17.
Jim’s post about the purposes of a Christian School is actually quite frightening when you think about it. Schools are places to teach and educate, not to create museums to ‘the godly Christian life’ or to ‘insulate kids from sinners’. When run the way Jim prescribed, they are great factories for Phariseeism. I’ve seen plenty of the fruit, but I very much doubt that anyone would ever admit that that’s really what they want when they pack up their kids and send them to ‘Christian Academy’.
Russell Moore, in his Erasmus Lecture back in November, contrasted Biblical Christianity with something he called ‘Southern Honor Culture’. It’s pretty clear that “honor culture” isn’t just an Islamic thing anymore, and hasn’t been for a while. Here’s an excerpt, and if it stings some, then maybe it ought to be read and mediated on more deeply.
Nonetheless, from the ages of fifteen through nineteen, I experienced a deep spiritual crisis that was grounded, at least partially, in, of all things, politics.
The cultural Christianity around me seemed increasingly artificial and cynical and even violent. I saw some Christians who preached against profanity use jarring racial epithets. I saw a cultural Christianity that preached hellfire and brimstone about sexual immorality and cultural decadence. And yet, in the church where the major tither was having an affair everyone in the community knew about, there he was, in our neighbor congregation’s “special music” time, singing “If It Wasn’t for That Lighthouse, Where Would This Ship Be?” I saw a cultural Christianity with preachers who often gained audiences, locally in church meetings or globally on television, by saying crazy and buffoonish things, simply to stir up the base and to gain attention from the world, whether that was claiming to know why God sent hurricanes and terrorist attacks or claiming that American founders, one of whom possibly impregnated his own human slaves and literally cut the New Testament apart, were orthodox, Evangelical Christians who, like us, stood up for traditional family values.
I saw a cultural Christianity cut off from the deep theology of the Bible and enamored with books and audio and sermon series tying current events to Bible prophecy—supermarket scanners as the mark of the Beast, Gog and Magog as the Soviet Union or, later, Saddam Hussein or al-Qaeda or the Islamic State as direct fulfillments of Bible prophecy. When these prophecies were not fulfilled, these teachers never retreated in shame. They waited to claim a new word from God and sold more products, whether books or emergency preparation kits for the Y2K global shutdown and the resulting dark age the Bible clearly told us would happen…
…I was left with the increasingly cynical feeling—an existential threat to my entire sense of myself and the world—that Christianity was just a means to an end. My faith was being used as a way to shore up Southern honor culture, mobilize voters for political allies, and market products to a gullible audience. I was ready to escape—and I did.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Where DO all these low commitment Christians learn this deficient faith? Wouldn’t we ordinarily assume that primary responsibility lies with the “pastor” and other vocational ministry leaders like the “school board”?
Sorry, but blaming “low commitment” is a dodge, nothing more. You can quibble that people who are church hopping won’t stay if you don’t tickle their ears, but faithful preaching of the Word also generates new converts. It should not be a long term decline, and it definitely should not be what I saw at one church; nobody between the ages of 18 and 35. And yes, I saw girls getting blamed for everything there, too.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
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