Florida School says Bible not permitted during “free reading” time

I suppose we should be shocked, but its hard to be shocked any longer.

Obvious first amendment right

https://www.libertyinstitute.org/rubeo

Links to voice message from teacher …. letter from Father to school … & more

Does it really matter? Can’t the child just read his Bible at home?

should he be limited? I assume the boy was just sitting there quietly minding his own business when he got “busted.”

[dgszweda]

Does it really matter? Can’t the child just read his Bible at home?

[Rob Fall]

should he be limited? I assume the boy was just sitting there quietly minding his own business when he got “busted.”

dgszweda wrote:

Does it really matter? Can’t the child just read his Bible at home?

Rob, I would agree, but in the end, not sure if this needs to be a federal case. Again, this is just my opinion. At the end of the day, this is a secular school being administered by an increasingly secular government. Is value spent in legal fights over this? or teaching our kids how to operate in an increasingly secular society. I have no problems if the father wants to pursue this. If he feels convicted to follow this path, all the more power to him. I am just not sure if I would pursue this route if my children were in a similar situation.

Dave,

If you are not going to fight for this right, where do you draw the line? How many rights must we lose before we begin to fight?

I advocate that we must use that to which we are rightfully entitled (speaking of the Bill of Rights) or we will lose them.

Examples:

• This case. Open reading time … but can’t read Bible
• Professor … can’t thank God at graduation. Since rescinded
• Public assembly … public religious speech (such as sharing Christ with someone at the airport or mall)
• 2nd amendment (not to debate this in detail here … but it’s a self-protection right we have as citizens)

[Chip Van Emmerik]

Dave,

If you are not going to fight for this right, where do you draw the line? How many rights must we lose before we begin to fight?

I am probably not the best candidate for this question. I am so “apolitical” at this point. I personally have no desire to fight and really don’t care much anymore. The world is going where the world is going and I think it is an illusion that we are able to control it much through the political process. We have no idea whether passing a law or not passing a law will impact us. One thing we do know is that the world hates us. That is a much stronger statement of fact than anything that can come out of Washington.

Despite the fear tactics used by conservatives, I see our society drifting to a more secularist society such as that found in the Nordic countries of Europe, than to a society with religious laws such as China, Russia or North Korea (even though many conservatives feel that this is where we are heading). At the end of the day if the worse that we become is like Denmark, than I am fine with that. At least you can freely practice your religion, despite the fact that government no longer actively promotes it like the historical US.

After reading the materials provided by this student’s defense team’s office I actually emailed the school to voice my concerns and surprisingly received the following response:

“Broward County Public Schools respects and upholds the rights of students to bring personal religious materials to school, including the Bible, and to read these items before school, after school or during any “free reading” time during the school day. This information has been communicated to the parents of the student involved in this situation.
Office of the Superintendent
754-321-2600”

The problem is that the school is still completely wrong. Our Constitutional rights guarantee us Freedom of Speech at times besides before & after school and during “free reading” time. This is like those supposed “Free Speech” zones at some secular university campuses. I thought we had Freedom of Speech anywhere and everywhere, but apparently I was wrong.

Jim is right. We need to use our rights (rightfully) and stand up for them or we will lose them - No matter what the Constitution says.

Today a kid can swear like a sailor in school and nobody says or does anything. But a kid dares to pray or read his Bible and everybody loses their minds.

• With Toastmasters you have speech ‘challenges’ like a humorous speech or a technical speech. Most speeches are 5-7 minutes but the more advanced ones my be 10-15 min long


• My company hosts a Toastmasters’ chapter that meets during our lunch hour on Tuesdays in my facility’s training room


• My “persuasive” speech was on giving and I mentioned an organization called Wounded Warriors. In this speech I talked about men being created in the image and likeness of God(with a quote from Genesis). It was in a Power Point Slide


• A manager at the meeting said publicly that religious speech was possibly offensive and should be avoided


• I sent him a follow-up email with the Toastmaster’s policy statement “You can’t talk about that” : “Members often hear “through the grapevine” that speeches concerning politics, religion and sex are forbidden by Toastmasters International because “such controversial subjects are not appropriate.” This is not true. Toastmasters International does not prohibit any speech topic, content or language.


• My last speech (8-10 min) was called “A Christian Response to Racism”. Slide set here. (Response: A dear black sister hugged me after my speech). This again was at work, in our training room.


• We need to push the envelope about our rights or they will be lost. We should not be cowered or intimidated.

[dgszweda]

I am probably not the best candidate for this question. I am so “apolitical” at this point. I personally have no desire to fight and really don’t care much anymore. The world is going where the world is going and I think it is an illusion that we are able to control it much through the political process. We have no idea whether passing a law or not passing a law will impact us. One thing we do know is that the world hates us. That is a much stronger statement of fact than anything that can come out of Washington.
Despite the fear tactics used by conservatives, I see our society drifting to a more secularist society such as that found in the Nordic countries of Europe, than to a society with religious laws such as China, Russia or North Korea (even though many conservatives feel that this is where we are heading). At the end of the day if the worse that we become is like Denmark, than I am fine with that. At least you can freely practice your religion, despite the fact that government no longer actively promotes it like the historical US.

dgszweda-

I agree with you, and think that, if anything, this position is accelerating quicker than we expect. My concern is that we are drifting past ‘secularist’ into ‘militantly secularist’ (freedom FROM religion), and I do agree with the others that rights, if unused, are lost.
I was reading in Habakkuk 3:16 this morning, and was struck by this verse:

I hear, and my body trembles; my lips quiver at the sound; rottenness enters into my bones; my legs tremble beneath me.
Yet I will quietly wait for the day of trouble to come upon people who invade us.

Habakkuk’s book is about how will God tolerate the wickedness in his country (either Judah or Israel - can’t remember now). God replies that it will not be much longer, because He is sending the Chaldeans to punish and purge. Habakkuk doesn’t understand (ch. 2) and pleads for more understanding. God says that He will deal with the Chaldeans in time, and Habakkuk ends by praising God in the midst of this tribulation.

I think that we, as Americans (for the most part) are in a similar situation, although we aren’t being invaded by a foreign power. What I did find interesting in this passage, though, was Habakkuk’s response to the trouble around him….he will ‘quietly wait’ for the trouble to come on the Chaldeans. What is the appropriate response to this particular situation? I don’t know either. But I do think that we have warrant for pushing back to defend the rights we are granted in the Bill of Rights through the legislative and perhaps judicial process. I don’t know that I ever see reason or right for any kind of military opposition to human authorities (cf John 18:33-38, Romans 13, Revelation 6:9-11). But maybe that’s just me.

Jay,

Good point. I am studying Isaiah and I find Chapters 39 and 40 to be interesting.

Behold, the days are coming, when all that is in your house, and that which your fathers have stored up till this day, shall be carried to Babylon. Nothing shall be left, says the LORD…..
Comfort, comfort my people, says your God.

Bad times are going to come, but we have no worries, because unlike the uncertainty that the world faces, we have a promise and hope. The world cannot pluck us from His hand.

You guys are aware that we are not Jews and they were carried away to Babylon.

To Jay who said: “I don’t know that I ever see reason or right for any kind of military opposition to human authorities (cf John 18:33-38, Romans 13, Revelation 6:9-11). But maybe that’s just me.”

My view:

• Christians should do all we can to absolutely eschew violence.
• There may be a place for self-defense. (for me if struck … I will endeavor to leave (and leave it up to the cops).
• About self-defense … there are some rights that are legal. But I would personally do all I could to avoid use of those rights
• If the Babylonian horde comes … thank God we have the USMC’s (and others)
• if the Vikings come: “The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!” (The Immigrant song ) … well we have the Packers! Note: The Immigrant song is played at all Vikings games!

[Jim]

• if the Vikings come: “The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!” (The Immigrant song ) … well we have the Packers! Note: The Immigrant song is played at all Vikings games!

You can HAVE the Packers… #flyeaglesfly :D