Carl Trueman Leaves Westminster for Grove City College
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Grove City is historically conservative. It’ll be interesting to see how they handle Trueman’s ambivalent political philosophy.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Trueman will like Grove City as far as his alcohol use, since Grove City does not have any specific policy regarding that topic for faculty and staff. So he can continue his drinking scotch and bourbon.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
[WallyMorris]Trueman will like Grove City as far as his alcohol use, since Grove City does not have any specific policy regarding that topic for faculty and staff. So he can continue his drinking scotch and bourbon.
Ah, always good for an irrelevant jab. What’s that have to do with the price of tea in China? Although I don’t know Carl personally he is right outside Philly where I live. And I didn’t know anything about his alcohol use. Or care. Not sure why you do.
A loss for Westminster, to be sure. I have listened to Trueman’s lectures on the Reformation and the Medieval church, and they’re very good. I also have his book on creeds. I appreciate his work!
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
I’ve got friends whose children loved it there, but if indeed it is correct that Grove City can too often equate political conservatism with theological conservatism (something we all need to watch), then I would suggest that hiring Trueman was a coup for Grove City.
Regarding the “Scotch issue”, my first thought is to wonder exactly why someone would be surprised that the heir of a Scottish-heavy theological tradition might enjoy Scotch. But more importantly, Lincoln’s comment about Grant comes to mind as well. When reproached for employing Grant because “he was a drunk”, Lincoln’s response was to ask what brand he drank so he could send a barrel to each of his generals. Agree or disagree with Trueman’s use of Christian liberty, and agree or disagree with him on Baptist-centered issues, he writes, to paraphrase Lincoln again.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Conservative theology is not compatible with liberal political philosophy. The latter is built on unbiblical views of human nature, the nature of society, the labor-reward relationship, the role of government, and — usually — the nature of property in general, and the nature of the family and its role in society (and sexual ethics as well, just to round out the list).
Lincoln’s attitude toward boozing generals has nothing to do with anything.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
To simply claim that “conservative theology is not compatible with liberal political philosophy” is a gross over-simplification. Conservatism ranges from the various brands of libertarian theology—which would include Ayn Rand—to “arch-conservative” ideology of Michael Savage, Reagan conservatism, Trumpism, and all the way to “slow the rate of growth of government.” No argument that good theology does demand certain political responses, but to boil it down to right vs. left is precisely the distillation which Trueman rejects, and rightly so.
And sorry, but yes, Lincoln’s quip has everything to do with Wally’s cheap shot about Truman’s enjoyment of Christian liberty. Grant’s detractors wanted to argue that since Grant allegedly got drunk in the camp, that he should not be a general. Lincoln responded, in effect, that he couldn’t afford this kind of fratricide—he fights, Lincoln said, and the Union effort needed more of that.
The exact same sort of argument applies here. To point at Trueman’s enjoyment of Scotch is, really, to say that he shouldn’t be welcomed in the theological forii of the world. And to that, I respond, again, he writes, and quite frankly at this point in history, the fundagelical movement cannot afford such fratricide.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
If you read Trueman’s articles on First Things, you’ll see he is extremely conservative on the vast majority of social issues. Takes a lot of heat for it there as well.
I believe he is something like a classical liberal which is way “to the right” of Republicans on several issues.
Trueman’s alcohol use is not “Christian Liberty”. His ancestry has nothing to do with his choice of beverage and cannot be used to justify such choices. I was under the impression that culture does not determine right and wrong. What disturbs me more is that some Christians will not criticize drinking scotch, brandy, or other strong alcoholic drinks.That lack of criticism shows how far the culture HAS influenced some people. Trueman’s alcohol use is relevant to his judgment and wisdom. Someone who shows such a poor use of judgment and wisdom should not be teaching in ANY Christian college. Some say they “don’t care” about his alcohol use? Wow - what a revealing statement.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
Started each day with a shot of bourbon
The straight-talking Midwesterner was an unabashed whiskey fan, for years beginning most days with a dram of Old Grand-Dad or Wild Turkey bourbon and a power walk.
[WallyMorris]Trueman’s alcohol use is not “Christian Liberty”…
If Trueman had a reputation for drunkedness or disorderly behavior under the influence, I would agree with you. Since to my knowledge he does not, but enjoys a good reputation as a Christian leader and an elder, I think you should modify your tone.
Wally are you accusing him of sin?
Just sayin’, Wally. The Bible does not plainly condemn the use of alcohol; therefore neither will I. Urge caution with alcohol, I’m with you. Point out that certain types of beverages seem to be designed to get people drunk, I’m with you 100%. Tell me that a person can’t participate in theological discussions because he enjoys a shot of Scotch once in a while and never gets drunk, well, ya lost me there.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Relax, my friend. You’re clearly outraged over Trueman’s use of alcohol. Why does it bother you so? He’s a Presbyterian from England, and Grove City College isn’t a Baptist fundamentalist institution which shares our sub-cultural interpretation of the “alcohol passages.” It’s not as though Trueman accepted a position at Maranatha Seminary!
As an aside, I watched Trueman do reformation history class at Masters Seminary, and there were some funny and uncomfortable moments during class when Trueman told stories which involved pubs …
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
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