"15 years from now half of the universities that exist will be bankrupt and in some fundamental way facing extinction"
Wouldn’t it just be crazy if churches would have to go back to doing their jobs and not outsource responsibility?
1 Kings 8:60 - so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.
Best of luck learning physics (or any of a thousand other disciplines) at church.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
But first observe that the article is not specifically about Bible or Christian colleges:
Moving pieces:
- High School grads in decline: “The number of high school graduates peaked in 2008-09 and will decline through 2014-15, still not recovering its peak through 2020-21”
- Student loan debt is huge: “Americans now owe more on their student loans than they do on their credit cards. With debt now growing at a rate of $2,853.88 per second, it will surpass $1 trillion in 2012. And neither taxpayers nor consumers can afford it.” Comments: it’s worse now than in 2010 (the date of this article). Of course this is after the horse left the barn. Good debt / bad debt: Good debt: (1) Woman borrows more than $ 100,000 to get a masters degree from top ten business school … hired by top investment bank (EZ to pay off) / or (2) Doctor; Bad debt: (1) young man borrows $ 100,000 to get a law degree … but there is oversupply of lawyers and Legalzoom can take care of 90% of someone’s legal needs / (2) Woman graduates from noted fundamentalist university and takes the next 15 years to pay off student loans while working as an office assistant
- How it impacts fundamentalist universities:
- Some see an over supply of Fundamentalist schools at the same time fundamentalism is in decline. Anecdotally at one time Pillsbury did not have the competition of Maranatha or Northland AND the Minnesota Baptist Association had 130+ churches that fed students. MBA now a fraction of that
- The demographic of white students, which are the mainstay of fundamentalist U’s, is waning
- Parents are asking tough questions about whether it is necessary to send children to Fundy U in light of the relative high costs and competitive job market where a degree in counseling, missions, women’s ministries, camp ministries, et cetera are not in demand in today’s market
I can tell you that most people are really questioning the value of a Christian education at the college level in relation to cost. It is significantly cheaper to send your child at a nearby institution and to have them be involved in their local church. Christian schools are in decline and that has historically been a big feeder for the Christian colleges. It is hard to justify $100K for 4 years at fundy U that is not accredited. In addition the growth of homeschooling has increased the idea of not going to fundy U. If I can keep my child home, send them a few hours a day to a local college and have them as a member and participant at their local church, looks much more like a homeschooling model (with lower costs and accreditation), than to ship Johnny half way around the country at a University that is not accredited and costs a lot of money.
Somebody help me out here, but I believe …
- Maranatha and BJU are the only fundamentalist institutions offering degrees beyond that of a Bible college
- Maranatha is regionally accredited and thus fully accepted anywhere
- BJU is TRACS accredited, which is not at all equivalent.
- This doesn’t necessarily reflect on the quality of instruction, but the portability of the degree earned.
Another option:
- Send your child to community college to get all the general requirements finished, and transfer into a university to wrap up the Bachelors.
It would be nice to get some inside perspective on the state of Christian higher education. Is it declining> It is increasing? Maranatha’s enrollment is on the rise, from what I heard from Dr. Marriot. I hear doomsday proclaiminations, (usually accompanied with a bizarre pinch of glee), that BJU’s enrollment is slipping. Who knows if its true. I hear the same cackling from critics about Central. I’m not at all sure Christian education is in a death spiral.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Fully accredited & has broad academic offerings including engineering
http://www.cedarville.edu/Academics.aspx
[doesn’t claim to be fundamentalist … but I’m Ok with that]
[Aaron Blumer]Best of luck learning physics (or any of a thousand other disciplines) at church.
Right Aaron, because I am really concerned about a church teaching physics.
1 Kings 8:60 - so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.
Appreciate it, Jim. I don’t claim to have much knowledge of Christian education options! I am very skeptical that Christian education is dying.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
When I pastored in Colorado, Cedarville was the go-to school for kids in the church.
The horror stories I heard … not about the school … but about students from my church driving 80-90 miles an hour to and fro (1200 miles) (some stories were over 100 mph at times!)
My wife and I made some determinations back then that: 1.) It didn’t make sense to send our kids (not the church kids …. our own kids!) so far away; 2.) And that having a car on campus was not a priority for our own kids!
All of our kids went basically local: 1.) Son #1: MCTC and Metropolitan State University (Finance and Accounting); Son # 2: Normandale CC and University of Minnesota (Mechanical Engineering); Daughter: Mankato State (Finance) (Mankato is 80 miles away and we did let her take a car). (She now at MIT Sloan) . Son # 1 now works as an accountant; Son # 2 is an engineer for Seagate AND a combat engineer (Staff Sergeant) with the MN National guard - currently deployed to Afghanistan; Daughter is nearing the end of year # 1 of 2 of her MBA. She has an internship at Goldman Sachs lined up for the Summer and will be a teaching assistant at the graduate level next year.
The higher education goals of female high school graduates (and in particular Christian females) have changed dramatically in the past few decades. My high school years (1977 - 1981) were at a Christian school. While I and many other boys were taking the more advanced, elective STEM courses, the girls were taking cooking, sewing, and other home-ec courses. I don’t recall it seeming unusual to me at the time that there were no girls in the Physics class, for example. At the Bible college that the school served as a de facto feeder school for, girls were largely limited to taking secretarial coursework (really a vocational, rather than a collegiate, program anyway…), or the Christian school teacher major. The other programs, in pastoral- or missions-related coursework, etc., were in essence males-only. Today, many of the Christian high school girls I know are excelling in STEM classes, and are entering college majors such as Chemical or Civil Engineering, Biology, Pre-Med, etc.
The title of my post says it all. I believe the local church and the individual’s commitment to their Christian walk are the most important things in these formative years; not where they go to school.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
A great place to get your (Army or Air Force) commission though the ROTC program.
Hoping to shed more light than heat..
[Larry Nelson]I generally share this newer idea for the educational goals of females, though STEM still depends on the student. We home-schooled both of our daughters before they headed off to college. One is now a computer science major doing quite well, and she is also part of the school programming team. She definitely got extra math through trig/pre-calculus, chemistry, physics, etc. The other is now a music major, also doing well in her major. Instead of trig/pre-calc and physics her senior year, she got business math, music theory, and music composition with use of Finale. Both of them had to learn and use typing and computers since junior-high, and took subjects in high school such as critical thinking and Latin.Neither of them took any “home economics” classes, although they did learn a little about cooking, sewing, etc. from my wife. In both cases I told them we expected them to prepare for a college education, where they (if they wanted to be supported by us) would take secular majors, intent on giving them an education that would be usable if they didn’t marry. Even if both of them want to get in some form of ministry later, which I definitely support (my music major daughter would like to travel with a musical evangelistic team for at least a couple years), I wanted them to have a “tent-making” major, so-to-speak, that would serve, as Paul’s trade did, to allow them to work at something even if they aren’t supported by ministry money.I think STEM is great for girls who have aptitude in that area, but even for one daughter who didn’t, I saw no reason to cripple either daughter’s education by preparing her for only an “MRS” degree. If the Lord wills, I hope both of them find a great husband to marry, but since I don’t know the future, I think being prepared is still better than “hoping.”The higher education goals of female high school graduates (and in particular Christian females) have changed dramatically in the past few decades. My high school years (1977 - 1981) were at a Christian school. While I and many other boys were taking the more advanced, elective STEM courses, the girls were taking cooking, sewing, and other home-ec courses. I don’t recall it seeming unusual to me at the time that there were no girls in the Physics class, for example. At the Bible college that the school served as a de facto feeder school for, girls were largely limited to taking secretarial coursework (really a vocational, rather than a collegiate, program anyway…), or the Christian school teacher major. The other programs, in pastoral- or missions-related coursework, etc., were in essence males-only. Today, many of the Christian high school girls I know are excelling in STEM classes, and are entering college majors such as Chemical or Civil Engineering, Biology, Pre-Med, etc.
Dave Barnhart
I saw something on FB about some old Pillsbury alumni discussing taking “The Christian Family” college class. Observation .. is that really a college level class? I feel the same about NT and OT introduction.
My wife (graduated from Florida State with a degree in Math … and a 4.0 average) never took a “home economics” class. And yet manages our home well … (bragging on her a bit). At any time we could have people drop in on our home. It is always neat an clean. And the cooking - well she learned that from her Mom (“Ma”) and improved upon that. I regularly print out recipes from the Wall Street Journal and she tackles them.
We had an argument this past week. Every Spring I have a guy come out and wash all the windows inside and out. Also spray down the deck. This year I intended to have him spray out all the winter road salt and mess from the garage. Kathee wants to do it herself.
[Jim]I saw something on FB about some old Pillsbury alumni discussing taking “The Christian Family” college class. Observation .. is that really a college level class? I feel the same about NT and OT introduction.
My wife (graduated from Florida State with a degree in Math … and a 4.0 average) never took a “home economics” class. And yet manages our home well … (bragging on her a bit). At any time we could have people drop in on our home. It is always neat an clean. And the cooking - well she learned that from her Mom (“Ma”) and improved upon that. I regularly print out recipes from the Wall Street Journal and she tackles them.
We had an argument this past week. Every Spring I have a guy come out and wash all the windows inside and out. Also spray down the deck. This year I intended to have him spray out all the winter road salt and mess from the garage. Kathee wants to do it herself.
NT and OT not a college level course? What about courses that introduce Shakespeare?
Discussion