Tennessee Temple University Closing

[Craig]

Bert Perry wrote:

Craig, making a charge of apostasy is a big deal—we are talking about compromise on the Fundamentals, the Trinity, and the like. Are we talking about this, or are we talking about Calvinism, continuationism, and cultural issues like music?

And I will grant that at least certain forms of continuationism do in fact pose a threat to the doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture, especially in charismatic movements where there is no discipline for false “prophets”. But I don’t think a mild continuationism like that of John Piper is a matter of apostasy—it is something with which I disagree in some ways quite emphatically, but it is not apostasy

…. so TTU is as strong in its scriptural stand as it was 30 years ago and has not waivered but is actually spiritually stronger today? ….really? If not it is in decline …

Craig, I can’t judge whether the Biblical stand at TTU is as good as it was, or for that matter might not have been, 30 years back. All I am saying is that “apostasy” is a big charge and ought to be backed up with serious evidence. It’s not just a new decision on music, worship style, rules in the dorms, and the like, but rather a compromise that really impacts the Fundamentals (authority of Scripture, virgin birth, etc..), the Solas, or the Trinity.

See what I’m getting at? To draw a picture, Elephant Room 2, where MacDonald and Driscoll greeted a modalist (T.D. Jakes) as a brother, is an example of something bordering on apostasy. Jakes’ historic modalism is. Theological liberalism, which denies the authority of Scripture, is apostasy. Big Daddy Weave, on the other hand, may be a bad musical decision and contrary to what many people think is appropriate in church or a school, but it is not apostasy.

Why this is important; I’ve personally seen the results when people confused personal lifestyle choices for doctrinal stands, and it’s a killer on churches. People see through it and bid the entire movement adieu.

[Craig]

Eventually most, if not all, churches, denominations, schools, and ministries either close down or go into apostasy. The Ivy League schools are a good example. Its difficult to find one that has stayed true to the faith for many years.

Many tend to view a school’s slide into “apostasy” not through the lens of Harvard and Princeton but though the examples of the Northern Baptist schools (Newton, Crozer, Colgate, Rochester, University of Chicago-Divinity, Northern and Eastern). All of which were lost to Modernism inside forty years. In many ways, it is the lost battle over these schools which has clouded the IFB view of the Southern Baptist Convention.

In the scheme of things, the former NIU and TTU are in positions far from Colgate-Rochester and the University of Chicago.

[Moved comment to other thread.]

I was a student at Temple Seminary during the end of Dr. Roberson’s pastorate and transition to other pastors. It was unusual to just announce one Wednesday evening that the church was to vote on JR Faulkner as the new pastor of HPBC. Even though there were opposition voices, the chairman announced a unanimous vote to call him. It was hard for him to follow such a fixture. After one year he resigned and J. Don Jennings was called as pastor. He did not last long either. The decline in the church and school was taking its toll. Then there was the scandals that surfaced in the last years of Roberson’s ministry.

If Lee Roberson had had a son, like many churches do, he would have been set up to be the next pastor. Succession of a long pastorate is often not handled well. (Look at First Baptist of Hammond to see how that worked out for them). Is it the mentality that this is my church and therefore I will have a say in who follows me? Is it hard for the church to accept someone different? Joshua had to follow the leadership of Moses but God made sure he would not have to deal with still having Moses around nor having a burial shrine for the people to cherish or worship.

I am thankful for the time I spent at Temple and HPBC. The everything rises and falls on leadership quote sounded good when things were rising. I saw the falling part but am not sure who the leadership was that was responsible.

[Mr. Ed] If Lee Roberson had had a son

Lee Roberson

Dr. and Mrs. Roberson had four children, LeeAnne, John, Joy & June. Their baby, Joy, for whom Camp Joy is named, died in 1946 at the age of two months.

A great article by Mark Cuban, predicting that many more colleges will close in the future (due to student loan bubble). http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-cuban-sweet-briar-college-college-d… This is definitely a larger trend than just colleges within Biblical fundamentalism.

JohnBrian

Maybe I did hear of his son, but I never saw him. Had he been “called” to ministry as many other father son ministries, he may have followed in the steps of his father. That may have been good or bad. Most that I have observed have not been good.

From the 03/07/15 Chattanoogan:

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/3/7/295532/Theology-Brings-Paralysis-Death-To.aspx:

Here’s how it begins:

“The collapse of Tennessee Temple University in Chattanooga tells of a faltering faction in Christianity that had its heyday in the 1960s in American fundamentalism’s peak.

The school was a bastion of conservative Baptist thinking styled premillennial dispensationalism that yanks Christianity out of its optimistic dynamism and steeps it in pessimism. The Tennessee Temple theory in Christianity is a historic novelty about 200 years old, but it is a majority report in the conservative wing of evangelical Christianity. Its ideas are reflected in Christian radio stations such as WMBW with Moody Radio and WDYN, and national ministries such as The John Ankerberg Show. Theologically, it argues for cultural withdrawal, dislikes God’s law as a grid for economics and national life, shuns the public square, cheers modern-day Israel as if its people were God’s chosen and leaves a paltry theological record.”

Larry: The article you posted when taken in its entirety is an exercise in bashing pre-milennialism and promoting Reformed theology, which the author, David Tulis, claims would have saved TTU. Anyone wishing to read the artilcle at chattanoogan.com may also read my response to it. As an outsider, Tulis quotes other outsiders to prove his point, i.e., that TTU’s troubles were theological.

[jimcarwest]

Larry: The article you posted when taken in its entirety is an exercise in bashing pre-milennialism and promoting Reformed theology, which the author, David Tulis, claims would have saved TTU. Anyone wishing to read the artilcle at chattanoogan.com may also read my response to it. As an outsider, Tulis quotes other outsiders to prove his point, i.e., that TTU’s troubles were theological.

I didn’t claim to agree with it. I just posted it as part of the discussion.

Professors at the seminary are said to be mostly Calvinistic, holding to the doctrines of sovereign grace.

Tennessee Temple represents dispensational premillennialism, which is pessimistic regarding efforts of Christians to build culturewide God’s kingdom on earth. A much older view of the church and the progress of time is post-millennialism, which holds that the word of God will eventually conquer every tongue, tribe and land before the last day.

The author seems to be a theonomy advocate, bashing Calvinists and Premillenilaists!

​ It teaches that by sovereign grace and the validity of God’s law as a standard for human conduct, Christendom will bring the people’s to the throne of God.

Is the above statement advocacy for theonomy?

This statement by a commenter on Tullis article expresses my view of the problem:

The pastor and President, who had made himself famous by the axiom, “Everything rises and falls on leadership,” failed to wisely prepare the ministry for a transfer of leadership.