What is a preacher eater church?

An interesting list, but lost there is the cause of why a church becomes a preacher-eater church. Why do you get cliques that covertly run the church? Why do members decide the pastor shouldn’t be paid adequately? Why is everybody fighting all the time? I’ve been in a church or two that fits Rainer’s description, and from what I learned of the history, they had a pattern going back a while—we might infer that bad behavior prevented them from getting a good pastor, and a mediocre pastor would then fail to address the besetting sins of the congregation, leading to more bad behavior and mediocre pastors in a vicious spiral. Or the spiral might have started with a truly poor pastor.

If we truly believe that God’s Word does not return void, a lot of this really goes back to leadership, especially the guys who have filled the pulpit. And we would infer as well that there are some churches simply need a rather thick-skinned “turnaround artist” who understands toxic churches well enough to understand that he’ll start by renting in any place he serves, and then give them the Scripture they’ve been ignoring for years if not decades.

(note; thick-skinned, not ham-handed!)

Let them die. It’s not worth the harm it will do to your own family. Die. Die. Die. The people who are actually regenerate in the church can go to other, healthy congregations. This kind of church will destroy the Pastor, it will destroy his wife, and it will destroy the Christians in that church who just want to serve the Lord. Let them have their toxic club, and roll out. Die church, die.

I’ll come back and tell you what I really think later :)

Pastors at ______ Baptist Church usually stayed for about 2 years. When Bill came to the church he wanted to break that pattern and gave himself to loving the people and being faithful to his work as pastor. After 18 months a small but influential group started criticizing Pastor Bill and told him that they wanted to have a vote of confidence. Pastor Bill proceeded to visit every church member to see where he stood with them and walked into the business meeting confident that the majority supported him. He lost the vote! When he went to the members who had professed support, one of them said, “We love you but we have to live with them.”

I have a theory that in many of these preacher eater churches (and maybe some other churches as well) there are three groups of people. There’s a group that wants to do the right thing. There’s a group that want to run the church and promote their agenda and usually have more persuasive power than group one. Then there’s the largest group who just want the church to be there so they can worship and avoid conflict.

You wrote:

I have a theory that in many of these preacher eater churches (and maybe some other churches as well) there are three groups of people. There’s a group that wants to do the right thing. There’s a group that want to run the church and promote their agenda and usually have more persuasive power than group one. Then there’s the largest group who just want the church to be there so they can worship and avoid conflict.

You just described my last Pastorate. It’s almost as if you’ve been around the block a few times before … ! :)

Not only have I been there, I have a drawer full of tee shirts! The three group pattern is something I noticed the last time I was candidating.

I know of an individual who has a real passion for helping troubled churches. He calls himself a “redevelopment transitional pastor.” He moves from interim pastor position to interim pastor position, and doesn’t just “hold down the fort” until the church gets a new pastor, but he helps the elders/deacons and search committee identify areas in the church that are like the ones on the list. He has written a couple of books about the process and he has a website with quite a few articles about church health.

http://www.churchwhisperers.org/

Lord bless him. He’s a much better man than I am. The Pastorate can be a wonderful blessing, and it can also destroy you. This pattern of “preacher eater churches” is probably due to a combination of factors:

• The American church is pampered and expects far too much. “Church” has morphed into a monstrosity of Christian cultural baggage and expectations that go far beyond the NT. I was listening to a lecture by Carl Trueman the other day, and he remarked that Luther said (I’m paraphrasing) that pastoral ministry was just about (1) preaching the Gospel, (2) observing the ordinances, and (3) burying the departed saints. Everything else is window dressing. I’d add “discipling the saints” to that list, but you get the basic point. I think many congregations need to strip this monster down to bare essentials and focus time and energy on what really matters.
• Some established congregations have so much baggage, traditionalism and outright idolatry tied to their buildings that they’d be better off to sell the thing. It would never happen, but still - people worship the building. When I resigned, the first thing the power faction did was restore the furniture arrangement on he platform to the exact way it had been before I came. It had bothered them I removed one chair. It bothered them I put a standing lamp in the foyer for extra light. It really made them mad. They came more for the memories and nostalgia of the building than for Christ. My wife used to joke that she dreamed of blowing the building up - she said it’d be the most spiritual thing we could do for the congregation.
• A notable proportion of the people in Christian churches (yes, even Baptist ones) are not saved. This is especially true in the rural Mid-West, where Christian Americana is still strong. They aren’t Christians, but they think they are, and guess what - they don’t act like Christians, either. They can pretend with the bvest of them, but the knives and tomahawks are there - waiting. I learned at that church to always preach the Gospel forcefully and unapologetically. Don’t ever assume, “Well, it’s just the good ‘ole crowd tonight!” No, we all need to be reminded of the Gospel regularly - because some of us are still rejecting it.

A sidenote - I think every Baptist minister should read John Hammett’s wonderful book Biblical Foundations for Baptist Churches. His suggestions on making the ordinances central in church life again were a revelation to me (no pun intended). He is honest about problems in Baptist churches, and calls us to faithfulness to a glorious heritage. The best book on polity I’ve ever read.

Tyler,

I’ve never met any of the men on Sharper Iron, but both enjoy and learn from reading the blog. On this topic, your final factor listed as a cause for “preacher eater churches” is, I fear, perhaps the primary cause. I’ve said for years that if someone claims to be a Christian and does not have a hunger for the Word of God he is at best sick, and at worst dead. I know that a pastor has to do more than just preach the Word of God, but when he is faithful to preach that Word, and people show no appetite for it, there may be “death in the pot.”

I hope you realize that your experience was a buzz saw that most people don’t experience. I have never seen what you experienced, for example.So, try to keep your hopes up!

The church I presently pastor has been in existence for 175 years and except for three exceptions, never had a pastor stay longer then 4-5 years. I am one of those exceptions. It was a church entrenched in the past, a church that had nearly 20 boards (making decisions was difficult), and a church with some strong personalities in its lay leadership. One thing I learned is that such a church becomes a preacher-eater if a pastor comes expecting to make huge changes in a short period of time. I have been here 20 years, and most people who would stand in the way of some decisions we’ve made recently have gone to be with the Lord, or they’ve come to trust my leadership. Some preacher-eater churches can be changed if a pastor would commit to staying there an above-average amount of time.

I am not quite sure what conclusions to draw from Jonathan’s comment, as the average tenure for an evangelical pastor these days is apparently a little less than four years. So is the church he pastors not quite among the preacher eaters, or is the average “fundagelical” church a preacher-eater? Food for thought at least. And here’s a bit more from Rainer about the third year dilemma.

One thing I can be sure about with Jonathan’s comment is that 20 boards will make things difficult. I remember my first time as a deacon, one of the first things I did was to attend the “finance committee” meeting. I came out of that meeting and instantly said to the head deacon “we have two deacon boards.” To this day I’m not sure how he persuaded them to disband, but we lost none of them.

Every problem church has a different dynamic and different problems. My church had issues primarily because the beloved retired Pastor decided to stay to “keep an eye on things.” He encouraged factions, encouraged criticism about me, interrupted sermons to accuse me of heresy and argue theological points, accused me of not actually immersing people in the baptistry, and made rounds to his cronies’ homes to explain what I was doing “wrong” and why I was “destroying the church,” and all sorts of other similar silliness. After being very patient, we had to go the church discipline route. It became clear the church would split down the line if we went further. We resigned.

I’m not bitter - I’m long past the stage where I feel sorry for myself. I’m just being matter of fact. The church could have made it if he had left immediately. That is the most heartbreaking thing about my former church. It could have worked - if he had just left us all alone.

Regardless, though - this is symptomatic of a larger issue. Follow Christ, not the Pastor. Follow Christ, not the stupid building. Follow Christ, not your stupid traditions. I knew a Pastor who resigned because the power faction at his church rebuked him for cleaning out a dusty supply closet, and throwing out Sunday School curriculum from the 1950s. They accused him of waste. They said the material “was still good.” It was the last straw on a long road. He went back to the mission field.

In this kind of situation, steer clear and don’t even try it. Don’t go. There are other churches. There are other Pastors. That particular church isn’t worth it. Save yourself. Let it die.

[TylerR]

I knew a Pastor who resigned because the power faction at his church rebuked him for cleaning out a dusty supply closet, and throwing out Sunday School curriculum from the 1950s. They accused him of waste. They said the material “was still good.” It was the last straw on a long road. He went back to the mission field.

At this blog, the great SharperIron, I was called out for relating a story of a pastor who painted a bathroom a certain color, and the deacons complained because he didn’t clear it with them. Now, I suppose the people who called me out would tell you that your friend should have gone to the appropriate committee to get permission to clean out the closet!

Whoever “called you out” on that comment was being foolish! :)

The cause is the former pastor(s). Every example of “pastor-eater” churches I know of got its “pastor-eating” start from poor pastoral leadership sometime in the past.

One church’s founding pastor had to resign because of issues with his children. Before he resigned, he established a plurality of elder system to replace the founding pastor system, but chose as elders men who weren’t qualified to be the elders. When the founding pastor stepped down, he recommended another man to become the pastor who didn’t believe in the plurality of elders. As a result, he and the unqualified elders continually fought over the direction of the church. They finally fired him. Then, they hired an unqualified man to be the next pastor of the church, and the fun started all over again. The lay elders thought it was their responsibility to keep the paid elder in check.

Another church had to fire its senior pastor because of embezzlement. After that, the deacons took complete control of the church and kept all future pastors on a very tight leash. He wasn’t allow to spend any money (on copy paper, etc) unless the deacons held a business meeting to discuss.

Another church had to fire its senior pastor because of immorality. After that, the church became suspicious of all its future pastors. It demanded they keep track of their hours and where they were at all times. The church basically micro-managed their pastor’s time and his appointments.

Another church hired a new pastor after their former pastor retired. The new pastor immediately began making significant changes within the church. This resulted in resentment and resistance within the congregation, which eventually led to a church split (about 40% of the church left). The people who left started another church, which severely curtailed the role/authority of the pastor.

So, again, it seems to me that pastor-eater churches are the consequence of poor pastoral leadership.