The GOTHARD Files: A Case for Disqualification

There are so many things wrong with all of this. Institutions who operate outside of the church are not truly accountable to them. People also perpetutating accusations in the case of “healing” with a fraudulent appeal to Matt 18 to promote healing.

I see this kind of thing and have no idea who to believe. Neither institution is biblical so of course there will be man made problems and man made solutions.

James, could it be that if we consider the church at large, then what they are doing is in keeping with a principle of taking an unresolved matter to the church, big “C”. Rightly or wrongly, if someone sets themselves up as a ministry leader, they are in a position to be rebuked publicly if what they are doing is wrong and fails to cease.

Not disagreeing that accusations can be heresay, or that the people at the hub are not in “local” bodies.

However, powerful leaders use tyranny, secrecy, and smoke and mirrors to cover up their corruption and failings…church, politics, academia, wherever. Individuals in the know, as well as the subjects of victimization, are often powerless to push back. So it requires group effort, and often publicity, to counterattack the wrongs. If there is a wolf lose among the sheep, then people should be warned.

I didn’t read all of the site because of time and lack of interest.

I observe (having attended several of his live pastors conferences years ago) that his advice (coming from a single man who seems absolutely clueless about marriage) about marriage was laughable. I’m not talking about the Scriptural stuff like “Husbands love your wives”.

[dmicah]

James, could it be that if we consider the church at large, then what they are doing is in keeping with a principle of taking an unresolved matter to the church, big “C”. Rightly or wrongly, if someone sets themselves up as a ministry leader, they are in a position to be rebuked publicly if what they are doing is wrong and fails to cease.

Not disagreeing that accusations can be heresay, or that the people at the hub are not in “local” bodies.

However, powerful leaders use tyranny, secrecy, and smoke and mirrors to cover up their corruption and failings…church, politics, academia, wherever. Individuals in the know, as well as the subjects of victimization, are often powerless to push back. So it requires group effort, and often publicity, to counterattack the wrongs. If there is a wolf lose among the sheep, then people should be warned.

dmicah, the context of Matt 18 involved an enforceable punishment. What is the enforcement of the punishment? It is said that the website is there to promote healing. If there was truly evil being done, then whatever church Gothard attends is what needed to be contacted. The irony of them appealing to Matt 18 only to carry it out so horribly wrong makes me question much about them.

The problem is that Gothard has infected many churches across the land. Yes, ultimately enforceable discipline must come from his local assembly, however the rebuke and call for repentance should extend as far as his ministry has extended. Any pastor who has had his heretical (divisive) teaching enter the local church will understand this much better.

I was the pastor of a church with a Gothard influenced family. When we first got there, I really admired the high standards that this family had chosen. However, it was not long before I realized that they were looking down on others in the church who had not chosen their same standards (that was essentially everyone else in the church). I soon realized that the standards that they held to were mainly external and while we saw spiritual growth in so many others in the church, this family seemed to continually struggle with bitterness and to resist so much Biblical teaching. I soon realized that since I was not preaching the same things as Gothard and was actually preaching the opposite of what Gothard taught in some cases, I had lost much credibility with this family.

I pray not just for those who are caught up in Gothard’s false teaching, but for the churches who are divided because of it. The sexual scandal may help to get peoples attention, like it did in Hammand, but the damage of the Gothard movement is far more far reaching than even the immoral behavior.

Will his own organization ask him to step down? Probably not. Thus, there is no real way to do discipline in a “body” centered organization.

A local church led organization has bibilcal means to discipline.

Even if he was disciplined, he could just start another organization to those who would want to go with him.

Truly sad.

[Steve Newman]

Will his own organization ask him to step down? Probably not. Thus, there is no real way to do discipline in a “body” centered organization.

A local church led organization has bibilcal means to discipline.

Even if he was disciplined, he could just start another organization to those who would want to go with him.

Truly sad.

Exactly.

JD Miller - you nailed it. The Gothard influence is similar to the wide influence of Doug Phillips/Vision Forum and in fact there are overlaps between the two groups, their false teachings, and practices - - also their $$ sponsors. The Bible teaches about false teachers and sexual immorality (Jude 4, 2 Peter) and so this conduct should not come as a surprise.

Steve Newman is also correct - - even with discipline, both of these men have a huge following and they will have no trouble starting up someplace else. Sadly, the people following these guys want this kind of leader. They follow blindly.

I think its really hard for Christians to deal with this man b/c he teaches authority, obedience, submission, etc., that we all assume are Biblical, and how can you teach that wrong? But Christians have to learn to discern when these teachings are actually taught in a Biblical way, and when they are, especially collectively, unbiblical in the way they are presented. Authority has to understand the limits of their authority.

And shredding apart this topic in a deeply discerning way is a big job.

(if that makes any sense at all.)

Although there is not a direct connection between these groups, there does seem to be some overlap in the sense that those who gravitate to one will often gravitate to the others. It appears that Vision Forum has closed, but Michael and Debbie Pearl still have a wide influence.