Bob Jones University and the Bruins Foundation are hosting “An Evening with Tim Tebow”

There is a substantial difference between a private parent and someone that has earned millions of dollars off of being a public figure. In short, there are some occupations where public evaluation is just part of the package. Professional sports is one of those occupations.

Whether he gets special treatment because he is a Christian seems like a stretch. If it is OK to publicly evaluate Eli Manning, it should be OK to do the same for Tebow.

The idea that we should give more grace to public figures because they are “brethren” is perhaps why Christians are stuck with the heroes they have. Have 19 kids? Let’s make you a hero. Live in a swamp and have a business making duck calls? Let’s make you a hero. Start a few NFL games? Let’s make you a hero.

With all the negative PR some of these people have gotten over past years, I think Christians need better heroes.

“Hero” is a word used to poison the well in this conversation. To use wording like that and like Don has used suggests that when Tebow gets to BJU, those who invited him there are going to bow down and worship him.

Are there some who actually consider Tim Tebow their “hero,” who “fawn” over him, who are his “groupies,” etc., etc., etc.,? Of course. But what about those of us who simply “admire” and “respect” him?

Per Larry’s comment, if not making it in the NFL makes Tebow a loser, what do we say about our own movement as membership shrinks, Bible colleges close, and the like? Do we really want to play this game? By the standards of worldly success, our only good pastors are the guys like Rick Warren.

Regarding the question Greg H. asks about whether NFL owners would intentionally skip a great player due to externalities, keep in mind that Colin Kaepernick is probably one of the top 50 quarterbacks on the planet, and is unemployed in a league of 32 teams with 3-4 quarterbacks apiece. Yes, it happens.

[Greg Long]

“Hero” is a word used to poison the well in this conversation. To use wording like that and like Don has used suggests that when Tebow gets to BJU, those who invited him there are going to bow down and worship him.

Are there some who actually consider Tim Tebow their “hero,” who “fawn” over him, who are his “groupies,” etc., etc., etc.,? Of course. But what about those of us who simply “admire” and “respect” him?

Personally I have no problem with anyone that admires and respects him. I respect him myself.

I was just reacting to angst put on Don where someone got offended because he spoke the truth (about his mediocrity) and the implied idea that as a Christian, he is due some kind of kid glove treatment in regards to evaluating his skills.

[Larry Nelson]

If it’s fair to refer to a brother in Christ like Tebow as a “mediocre athlete” (among other pejoratives in this thread) is it alright to similarly refer to other Christians based on their failings (perceived or actual)?

If Don has a business owner in his church whose business teeters on the brink of bankruptcy, can Don call him out as a “mediocre businessman”?

If a lawyer in Don’s church loses a “slam dunk” case, can Don call her a “lousy lawyer”?

When a child in Don’s church acts up, should Don publicly call mom or dad a “rotten parent”?

Or is there instead a Biblical basis for expecting Don (or others) to treat brethren with greater decorum?

Regardless of the factual basis for the comment, is it really necessary?

I agree Larry. Don may be a mediocre preacher but I wouldn’t say it publicly (he also may not be). One’s mediocrity is another’s extraordinary.

I would encourage folks to take 10 minutes and read this lengthy breakdown of Tebow’s NFL career ridiculing the notion that he couldn’t get a job even as a backup in the NFL. It makes quite a number of strong arguments as to why there must be more than just talent evaluation involved.

https://thelacesout.com/why-no-one-in-the-nfl-wants-tim-tebow-26d93b674…

Just one example. The Browns…THE BROWNS…passed on Tim Tebow as a QB, yet they picked Johnny Manziel. How’d that work out for them?

In 2013, then Cleveland Browns General Manager Michael Lombardi, was quoted as saying, “(Tebow’s) not the vision of where we’re headed.” What vision was that? Losing? Lombardi’s since been fired and replaced by Ray Farmer. Farmer’s vision apparently is in step with his predecessor’s. Also passing on Tebow, Farmer opted to draft Johnny Manziel this past year — perhaps the anti-Tebow. Off the field, Johnny Football is a partying train wreck — on it, NFL personnel are about as divided on him as they are with Tebow. By the way, the Browns, as a franchise, have started 20 different QB’s since 1999. So yeah, they’ve got great “vision” with that. No wonder they’ve only had 2 winning seasons since ‘99 and six consecutive 11 loss seasons. Some say — the Browns are cursed. Perhaps, they’re only cursed in their inability to pick a QB. However, I would argue they simply don’t know how to properly evaluate one.

Now, in the interest of complete fairness, this article explains one perspective on why Tebow didn’t make it in the NFL. But again, while I understand he might not be Pro Bowl or even starting QB material, I cannot for the life of me understand why he wasn’t even good enough to be a backup, compared to so many of the 2nd and 3rd string QBs in the NFL (and even several starters!).

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Why-Tim-Tebow-Failed-In-The-NFL

I would encourage folks to take 10 minutes and read this lengthy breakdown of Tebow’s NFL career ridiculing the notion that he couldn’t get a job even as a backup in the NFL. It makes quite a number of strong arguments as to why there must be more than just talent evaluation involved.

https://thelacesout.com/why-no-one-in-the-nfl-wants-tim-tebow-26d93b674…

Just one example. The Browns…THE BROWNS…passed on Tim Tebow as a QB, yet they picked Johnny Manziel. How’d that work out for them?

In 2013, then Cleveland Browns General Manager Michael Lombardi, was quoted as saying, “(Tebow’s) not the vision of where we’re headed.” What vision was that? Losing? Lombardi’s since been fired and replaced by Ray Farmer. Farmer’s vision apparently is in step with his predecessor’s. Also passing on Tebow, Farmer opted to draft Johnny Manziel this past year — perhaps the anti-Tebow. Off the field, Johnny Football is a partying train wreck — on it, NFL personnel are about as divided on him as they are with Tebow. By the way, the Browns, as a franchise, have started 20 different QB’s since 1999. So yeah, they’ve got great “vision” with that. No wonder they’ve only had 2 winning seasons since ‘99 and six consecutive 11 loss seasons. Some say — the Browns are cursed. Perhaps, they’re only cursed in their inability to pick a QB. However, I would argue they simply don’t know how to properly evaluate one.

Now, in the interest of complete fairness, this article explains one perspective on why Tebow didn’t make it in the NFL. But again, while I understand he might not be Pro Bowl or even starting QB material, I cannot for the life of me understand why he wasn’t even good enough to be a backup, compared to so many of the 2nd and 3rd string QBs in the NFL (and even several starters!).

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Why-Tim-Tebow-Failed-In-The-NFL

The most common explanation for Tebow’s NFL experience is not his Christian testimony but his unwillingness to play anything but quarterback. Had he been willing to consider another position, he may have prolonged his career. There were serious questions about his throwing motion and mechanics that many considered him limited. Even backups have good mechanics. Having a bunch of armchair talent scouts second guessing that is not a good thing.

It could be that there were also other factors, such as distractions. That is probably why former starts Colin Kaepernick doesn’t have a job. He had already lost his starting position but as a former starter, he could have been a backup, but the distractions were too great, as with Johnny Manziel (whose issues were manifold).

There many outspoken Christians in professional sports which indicates that owners and managers/coaches are typically not all that concerned. They are about winning games, not making political or cultural statements, which is why Colin Kaerpernick has no job).

The short version of all this is people like me are willing to make a donation to BJU Athletics to hear Tim Tebow speak. Hopefully, lots of people like me. If they could raise money for the athletic association by having Don Johnson or Mike Harding speak I’m sure they would but the fact is for a fund-raiser it needs to be something of interest to the attendees. Tebow was homeschooled, shows genuine concern for persons with disabilities, and played college football (albeit for the Gators) and he can talk about those things from a Christian perspective. Those categories are of genuine interest to me.

[ejohansen]

The short version of all this is people like me are willing to make a donation to BJU Athletics to hear Tim Tebow speak. Hopefully, lots of people like me. If they could raise money for the athletic association by having Don Johnson or Mike Harding speak I’m sure they would but the fact is for a fund-raiser it needs to be something of interest to the attendees. Tebow was homeschooled, shows genuine concern for persons with disabilities, and played college football (albeit for the Gators) and he can talk about those things from a Christian perspective. Those categories are of genuine interest to me.

As I am both a football coach and have a son who will be playing football next year in college, from my opinion, Tim Tebow had some of the worst QB mechanics as a player. Yes he had the heart, work ethic and was very athletic, but it took forever for him to get the ball out of his hand (he has a windup throw) and he wasn’t very accurate. In fact, my son’s QB mechanics were similar to Tebow’s (from 4th grade to 9th) and our JV and Varsity coaches had the foresight to move him from QB to RB, where he was able to flourish. I watched intently when he was with the Patriots during preseason and he was terrible. He had a hard time making the quick throws in the flats that Brady does without flinching. No. Tebow was not even a NFL caliber QB because the game is all about speed and accuracy and Tebow had neither. Tebow could have flourished in the NFL as a TE or H-Back or Fullback (because of his athleticism) but he refused to change. That is only reason he is not in the NFL today.

[Larry]

The most common explanation for Tebow’s NFL experience is not his Christian testimony but his unwillingness to play anything but quarterback. Had he been willing to consider another position, he may have prolonged his career. There were serious questions about his throwing motion and mechanics that many considered him limited. Even backups have good mechanics. Having a bunch of armchair talent scouts second guessing that is not a good thing.

I guess that is my problem. People are saying one of these two things:

1) They know more about evaluating football talent than NFL executives and coaches (perhaps from watching NFL games on Sunday and playing Madden).

2) There is some kind of conspiracy at work against Christians in the NFL (wonder how Nick Foley and dozens of other professed Christians made it).

Both options are far-fetched. Extremely…

Love this article by the way. I like Colin Kaepernick too. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/09/24/colin-kaepernick-vs-tim-tebow-a-tale-of-two-christianities-on-its-knees/?utm_term=.cc50a75e7b19

As I am both a football coach and have a son who will be playing football next year in college, from my opinion, Tim Tebow had some of the worst QB mechanics as a player. Yes he had the heart, work ethic and was very athletic, but it took forever for him to get the ball out of his hand (he has a windup throw) and he wasn’t very accurate.

Tebow was routinely regarded as (at best) a second to third round pick at the NFL draft in 2015, and the Broncos traded three picks that year to move into the first round and drafted him 25th overall in the first round. I listened to plenty of pre-draft discussion that year because I wanted him to go high and do well, and anyone with a grasp of the QB position in the NFL discussed issues with his mechanics. The Broncos were derided for several weeks for doing drafting him as high as they did. Tim’s refusal to consider other positions was another issue, as at least one person I listened to said he’d be a terrific tight end or half-back. I believe the Jets wanted to try that experiment at one point.

As for Don’s comments, it’s not even about the definition of ‘mediocre’ or not. It’s about are those remarks helpful, edifying, and in love when talking about Tim - “what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen” (Eph. 4:29) and “loving others as yourself” (Mark 12:31). It’s about how Christians treat other Christians, and it’s still a sin, whether he excuses (or has it excused by others) or not. I think that it is sad that this is a discussion by people who ought to know better. It’s not that hard to say “I should have called him something else” or “that wasn’t very kind of me”. But as is the norm, we get a lot of wrangling over what the meaning of the word “is” is, so to speak, and the parsing of phrasing to the nth degree. I have many issues with Don, but I wouldn’t impugn him by saying that he is a mediocre ____________.

It’s a pretty sad commentary on us that we can’t grasp this simple fact.