Showdown looms over SBC and Calvinism

John,

I will accept that you know much more about the SBC than I do. I have some knowledge of it. My son was Mohler’s research assistant for four years. He is now a missionary-pastor in Rotherham, England, planting a small Baptist church there (non-SBC church). I have had opportunity to sit down with Dr. Mohler over a meal on two occasions. I know Dr. Scott Aniol very well. He is a tenured professor at Southwestern and belongs to a very conservative, separatist SBC church in TEXAS. Scott tells me that his church is rock solid in doctrine and extremely conservative in worship practices and philosophy of ministry. The church gives a “pittance” to the cooperative program and has separated from the Texas State Convention over doctrine and practice issues. Scott tells me that the SBC has virtually no influence over his church. Mark Dever also separated from the SBC state convention over doctrine and practice issues, but he stays connected to the national SBC for pragmatic reasons, because he gets a ton of money out of it to support his church-planting efforts around the world. He, like you, also claims complete autonomy for his local congregation.

Regarding the FBFI, I have been a board member for thirty-plus years, hosted regional and national meetings, spoken at many regional and national meetings, and I know nearly all the pastors on the board and many pastors who regularly attend. I can only recall one board member being forcibly removed from the board in all that time, and that was due to non-attendance at the board meetings. Others have resigned on their own for a variety of reasons. If the FBFI has a control mechanism it would simply be that you are not asked to speak at the meetings, requested to leave the board, or not to host a meeting. Other than that I do not believe they have any control mechanisms. As I said before the FBFI requires individual members to sign the doctrinal statement and agree to the mission statement. Is there some level of informal peer pressure as you suggest? Probably yes. However, that would exist even without an “FBFI” per se. A convention of churches both statewide and nationally appears to me to have much more skin in the game than a fellowship of individuals, especially when you consider the SBC colleges and seminaries, mission board, cooperative program, publishing arm, etc. My disagreement, John, is that the FBFI as a fellowship of individuals is not comparable to the SBC as a convention of churches. Maybe its not apples and bowling balls, but it might be apples and watermelons.

Fair enough. Although, I would push back a little and argue that it’s not apples and watermelons but Granny Smith apples and Gala apples :)

Thanks John. I asked Dr. Larry Oates from MBU to do a lecture on the SBC’s current situation at our Annual Meeting June 11-13. Larry has always done good work in the past on difficult topics. I look forward to his presentation. Best wishes to your father. Apples and Oranges? Split the difference.

Mike:

Why not have an SBC guy you trust do a lecture on the SBC’s situation? The approach you’re taking seems very weird.

Yes, let’s split the difference. Apples and oranges it is.

This is proof that an SBC guy and an FBFI guy can reach a compromise on something. ;)

Let’s see what Dr. Oats has to say. Remember, he is a product of Maranatha, not BJ. So, he’s coming from a Historic Northern Baptist POV.

Also, I think many project the shenanigans of the Northern Baptist Convention towards those churches and organizations seeking to leave it on the SBC.

[TylerR]

Mike:

Why not have an SBC guy you trust do a lecture on the SBC’s situation? The approach you’re taking seems very weird.

Tyler,

I originally asked a Fundamentalist church historian with a Ph.D. in church history from Southern who wrote his thesis on the history of the Northern Baptist Convention, but we were not able to work it out. Larry will do a good job I think. He is fair and rational.

John,

If you were a prophet or betting man, who would you say will be the next SBC President?

And a procedural question: How do most SBC churches pick their messengers? Select elders & deacons or by congregational vote? And how does the convention determine the number of eligible voting messengers a church may bring? I’m sure I could google this, but feeling lazy right now. Thanks.

Scott, I am most definitely not a prophet and even less of a betting man. Considering that most of my fellowship is with other reformed guys, my “feeling” is Greear, but my “feeling” is very biased and formed by my limited conversations with like-minded brothers.

Members in good standing of SBC affiliated churches are eligible. In my church, the first and really only requirement is, “Do you have the time to go to this thing?” The desire to go runs a distant second. In all seriousness, we do send brothers who are in some form of leadership within the church (many years, we do not have enough volunteers to fill out our spots - we’re really committed, as you can tell).

As far as how many messengers a church can send, it’s easier for me to post a link than it is for me to try and explain it.

http://www.bpnews.net/42739/sbc-messengers-adopt-updated-qualifications

For more info, check out article 3 of the Constitution: http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/legal/constitution.asp

An attempt was made to coerce me to go as a messenger last year. My response was something like, “No thanks. I can think of very few things more boring than having to sit through the SBC and their slavish devotion to Robert’s Rules of Order.”

In hindsight, after the excitement of last year’s convention, I regret my decision. Lord willing, I’ll be attending as a messenger this year.

[Scott Matthew]

John,

If you were a prophet or betting man, who would you say will be the next SBC President?

And a procedural question: How do most SBC churches pick their messengers? Select elders & deacons or by congregational vote? And how does the convention determine the number of eligible voting messengers a church may bring? I’m sure I could google this, but feeling lazy right now. Thanks.

Just for kicks, I googled the Las Vegas odds on next Southern Baptist President, and y’all will be relieved to know that I wasn’t able to find anything meaningful. When I googled “Las Vegas odds for next FBFI President….”…..wow……I actually found nothing, either. :^)

(I’d figured that somebody would be betting on stuff like this, but at the very least, it’s not big enough to be obvious)