Ed Stetzer to Paige Patterson: "step into a well-earned retirement"

If one doubts the importance of corporate culture, read this article carefully. Stetzer is more or less saying that there is a “groupthink” among Southern Baptists that ends up in “the right boot of fellowship” for those who differ in any point of the company line. Theologian Anthony Bradley has, along these lines, recently characterized the SBC’s approach towards race relations in terms of ancestor worship. Harsh? Yes, but let’s remember how many Confederate monuments there are in the South, and how long it’s taken to get most Southerners to stop flying the Southern Cross.

They are, in effect, doing so because their great-granddaddy had a part in the “late unpleasantness”, and their honor of their ancestors does not leave room to admit that, whatever their great-granddaddy’s motivations, the success of General Lee would have led to someone else’s great-granddaddy remaining in chains.

We need to watch out for this kind of tendency in our own circles, too.

For any who may have missed the BP article:

Paige Patterson Clarifies Domestic Violence Stance

http://www.bpnews.net/50802/patterson-clarifies-domestic-violence-stance

David R. Brumbelow

David, I’m glad he’s gone that far, but being the son of an abused woman, I think he needs to go farther and learn more about abuse and issue some real apologies. Simple fact is that in 2000, he described the victim coming to church with shiners, and given that most abused women get VERY good at applying makeup to hide such bruises, that means she wanted to create a scene and would have had some very direct (and likely unprintable) things to say if Patterson had said something about “non-injurious” abuse.

Here is a bit more about Patterson’s attitudes towards abuse courtesy of Rachael Denhollander. Long term tolerance of a sexual abuser in the pulpit (some criminal, some not) and commending a young man who described a young lady of maybe 16 years as “built.” Hint; if the words you use in your sermon are best defined by ‘Urban Dictionary”, reconsider.

We are in the midst of a feeding frenzy. Some justified; some goes too far.

Would some now want Jesus Christ to step aside for His politically incorrect statement?

But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. -Jesus; Matthew 5:39

Of course I’m against abuse. But there are a multitude of degrees and nuances.

Woe to us all, if our entire life and ministry hangs on getting every word and nuance exactly right, and politically correct.

May God bless and protect Paige Patterson in the midst of his enemies.

David R. Brumbelow

Article Supporting Patterson:

Biblical Inerrantist Believes Bible

http://sbctoday.wpengine.com/biblical-inerrantist-believes-bible/

David R. Brumbelow

We are in the midst of a feeding frenzy. Some justified; some goes too far.

Would some now want Jesus Christ to step aside for His politically incorrect statement?

But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. -Jesus; Matthew 5:39

Of course I’m against abuse. But there are a multitude of degrees and nuances.

This is easily the dumbest, Scripturally out of context, and most offensive comment I have read in ten plus years at SharperIron. Take a bow, David.

Of course Jesus’ command to turn the other cheek means that women should remain in abusive marriages.
Of course there’s no problem with a pastor, and President of two major seminaries, counseling a woman to remain in an abusive marriage and even do things that they both know will antagonize the abuser. I suppose that if her husband had shot to death to her in his rage, she’d been a real hero.

And of course it’s acceptable to make sexist remarks about 16 year old women being ‘built’ and tying it to God’s purpose for women, as though their only purpose is to serve as broodmares for other horny college aged boys. Nothing to see here, move along.

I’d write more, but I have to go vomit. Good night.

David, the so-called “feeding frenzy” is a series of taped interviews and sermons where Patterson’s words are readily available in context. Maybe, just maybe, instead of insulting the people complaining, you ought to see if you can defend calling a 16 year old girl “built”, or if you can defend condoning abuse that might have left the wife with orbital bone fractures and concussions, or if you can defend recommending a pastor to new pulpits after dozens of sexual abuse allegations.

I cannot, brother. And like it or not, that is precisely what Patterson is on record as doing.

[David R. Brumbelow]

We are in the midst of a feeding frenzy. Some justified; some goes too far.

Would some now want Jesus Christ to step aside for His politically incorrect statement?

But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. -Jesus; Matthew 5:39

Of course I’m against abuse. But there are a multitude of degrees and nuances.

Woe to us all, if our entire life and ministry hangs on getting every word and nuance exactly right, and politically correct.

May God bless and protect Paige Patterson in the midst of his enemies.

David R. Brumbelow

This is easily the dumbest thing I have ever read on SI. That is saying quite a bit too.

Before you get in a contest to see who is the most outraged, perhaps you should read more about this issue than just the hit piece by Stetzer and his buddies.

May you never receive one tenth of the vitriol poured, through the years, on Paige Patterson.

Paige Patterson is far from perfect, like us, but he has faithfully served the Lord as a preacher, pastor, evangelist, author, and educator for many years. He has been faithful doctrinally and morally. I’m glad to call him a friend.

David R. Brumbelow

Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary Statement on Abuse

https://swbts.edu/news/releases/statement-abuse/

David R. Brumbelow

David, the key things I respond to are things he’s said in public, and which are available for the listening on YouTube, things for which he ought to apologize. Stetzer’s comments are important in this context because he and a lot of others are claiming something of a code of omerta in SBC circles that will lead to this kind of thing being hidden because objecting to things publicly will get one expelled from the group, as Stetzer was.

And it’s not just in the SBC. Jim Peet will periodically post video of Jack Schaap preaching his masturbatory “polishing the shaft” sermon—First Baptist had omerta in abundance, accepting convicted pedophiles in various ministries and looking the other way at the door to Mrs. Nischik’s office. So did ABWE, and so did BJU, and so does my alma mater, Michigan State. So this isn’t a hit piece, but is rather an attempt by Stetzer to let sunlight hit the inner workings of an association he loves, despite how he was treated by Patterson.

Don’t succumb to omerta, David. Let the sun shine in.

[David R. Brumbelow]

Before you get in a contest to see who is the most outraged, perhaps you should read more about this issue than just the hit piece by Stetzer and his buddies.

May you never receive one tenth of the vitriol poured, through the years, on Paige Patterson.

Paige Patterson is far from perfect, like us, but he has faithfully served the Lord as a preacher, pastor, evangelist, author, and educator for many years. He has been faithful doctrinally and morally. I’m glad to call him a friend.

David R. Brumbelow

To be clear David, I was not saying that Paige’s words are dumb. They are actually breathtakingly stupid and ignorant but let’s face it: they were said in a time when the church was even more breathtakingly ignorant about abuse than it is today. He was certainly not outside of the curve in what he said at the time he said it. He is not even outside the curve by today’s standards by much (if any).

What I was referring to is your continued defense of the indefensible. There comes a point at which you have to just say “this is wrong” rather than claiming Stetzer wrote a hit piece and claiming that some new cover-your-rear statement from Southeastern actually is relevant to this.

…a few days ago, but cannot now provide the source, that the story of the abused woman may have been a made up story a la Spurgeon preaching for the Barnum & Bailey Circus.

If it is made up, Paige is stuck between getting grief for what he said, or getting grief admitting that he made it up!

Has anyone else seen anything like that?

JohnBrian, would love to see the source on that. I would admit it’s possible, as (as I mentioned above) it generally takes quite a bit for an abused wife to decide to go out in public with black eyes. What most people see, sad to say, is some incredibly good makeup artists right up to the time divorce papers are filed. Making a scene in public about abuse is, in my view, rare.

Agreed 100% that Patterson has put the SBC between a rock and a hard place with this, except for one thing; advocates for abuse, notably Jacob Denhollander (Rachael’s husband and a theology student at SBTS) note that a simple apology would suffice. Is it that hard? Evidently it is.

So, I am trying to figure out what my counseling position is supposed to be? If I as a pastor hear anything in any way that I think may be “abuse” towards a woman, I am supposed to immediately call the police and fill out a report? I am also supposed to counsel the woman (assuming it is a woman. What if a wife hits a husband? Police report? Separation? Church discipline?) to immediately leave the house? When can I start reconciliation counseling? Do I have to wait until the guy gets prosecuted? Or can I start before that? Maybe I’m never supposed to promote reconciliation since the mantra is “once an abuser, always and abuser.” Seriously, what is the standard so that 40 years from now you are not excoriated for being an “abuse supporter”? This is not sarcasm. I am seriously asking?

Also, in answering, demonstrate that you have a perfect record in this area and you have handled every situation, conversation, and sermon perfectly.