Some Advice for Younger Fundamentalists

My long experience with these groups is that they don’t tolerate confrontation PERIOD. It isn’t that they are rejecting what seem to some to be strident voices and that they’d be be prone to listen to speech with a different tone. In my experience the only voices they listen to are those of their own ever shrinking inner circle. And they don’t excommunicate, etc. those who question, they just ignore them.

In my experience the only voices they listen to are those of their own ever shrinking inner circle. And they don’t excommunicate, etc. those who question, they just ignore them.

…is that because they are the only ones who know how the system works, or what the real truth is, or whatever…the more rigid and inflexible their thought patterns become, and then because of that, the more likely they are to be convinced of their own rightness and ‘suffering’ for Jesus’ sake.

You can help someone that wants help. You can’t help someone that doesn’t see a need to change because everyone else in the group is saying that everything else is fine (if anyone has the temerity to question the status quo in the first place).

I ran across the quote by Cotton Mather in a work by Kenneth Silverman:

Since Christians who keep differing modes of worship can still be in a state of salvation “every difference in Religion does not make a Different Religion. And if we think our own Understandings to be a Standard for all the Rest of Mankind, we certainly , Think of our selves above what we ought to think.”

Deleted - my original comment wasn’t appropriate or helpful.

You can’t help someone that doesn’t see a need to change because everyone else in the group is saying that everything else is fine

I can’t help but wonder if the irony of this is being missed.

Since Don helpfully pointed out how the FBFI elects its’ good ol boy club Board of Directors out to us back way in 2013, when people were seeking feedback as to how best help the FBFI:

You can start with someone else’s initial question, or just jump directly to the very helpful and succinct answer by Bryan Bice, which I’ll reproduce here (underlined are FBFI citations, or you can go to the link):

Regarding election to the Board of Directors:

“They shall be elected to three-year terms with one-third being elected each year….They may be re-elected indefinitely as long as they meet the qualifications herein stated, and have been faithful in attendance and support of the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship International. Their election shall be by majority vote.”

Elected by whom? A majority of whom or what? Answer: The Board of Directors. So the Board votes on new board members who can serve for the rest of their life. Hmmm.

“A Chairman, Vice-Chairman, Secretary, and Treasurer shall be annually elected by vote of the Board of Directors….A President shall be elected by two-thirds majority of the Board of Directors.”

Note: All officers are chosen by the Board of Directors from the Board of Directors.

“Long term members of the Board of Directors may be appointed as non-voting Board Members Emeritus, to serve without expiration of term while they are members in good standing of the FBFI, or until resignation. Appointment shall be by the Board of Directors.”

What qualifies as “long term”? Who decides when someone’s been on the Board of Directors long enough to merit this honor?

“Potential future board members who are members in good standing of an independent, fundamental, separate Baptist church, shall be elected by the Board of Directors to a three year term. At the end of the three year term, they shall be eligible for re-election for one additional term or nominated for the Board of Directors by unanimous consent of the Executive Committee. Advisory Board members shall serve without voting privileges.”

Even Advisory Board Members are chosen by the Board of Directors, that is, those who are to be advised.

So it appears that the Board of Directors chooses the Board of Directors as well as its advisors (who could become Board Members if they’re liked well enough by those they advise) and all the officers. What role does the membership play in this, other than being part of a pool of potential board members? The membership doesn’t nominate board members, doesn’t vote to approve or reject potential board members, and doesn’t vote on the officers of the organization.

In my opinion, this kind of closed system easily lends itself to the charge, “Good Ol’ Boys Club.”

Larry can wonder about the irony of what I said earlier, but it’s amazing how all the comments I (and others) made four years ago are so similar to what is being said here. I mean, I thought about researching that 2013 discussion when this thread launched, but figured I would pass because it simply wasn’t worth it. I should have known better.

Larry can wonder about the irony of what I said earlier

The irony I pointed out has nothing to do with this comment of yours and Bryan’s here. I understand the self-perpetuating board of directors and understand the perceived need for it. I also find it ironic for a Baptist organization, but that has nothing to do with my point.

My point was the irony that some (most?) of the younger generation doesn’t see the need to change because everyone around else in their group says it’s okay. I am not a part of the FBFI and never have been. But I have seen enough to know that it’s not just the older ones who aren’t listening. In fact, they may be listening more than the younger ones.

The wheels keep gong round, and we keep getting nowhere:

• Many fundamentalist para-church organizations (with the exception of the bible colleges and seminaries) have lost their sense of mission, and do little to nothing to perpetuate a historic fundamentalist ethos of militant offense and defense against theological revisionism, at an intellectual and popular level. They’ve largely ceded this responsibility to conservative evangelicals.
• Many fundamentalist para-church organizations have ossified, and become about the organization, rather than the original ethos and impetus which gave birth to the organizations. Ditto.
• My article is some broad advice for younger men, to avoid becoming Company Men, and to retain some semblance of sanity in the toxic world of fundamentalist identity politics.

I’d appreciate some pushback on these points; none have been forthcoming.

If I believe the criticisms are valid, what else should I do?

Might I make a few suggestions? (I started this yesterday and had a fourth point but I don’t remember it and I accidentally deleted it. The first version was better, but since you asked …)

Reevaluate your beliefs. Have you considered that your belief may be wrong? You claim the FBFI has lost its sense of purpose. But I wonder if the truth is that they simply don’t share your purpose. I think they are pretty clear on what their purpose is, and they have been pretty steadfast about it. What if your belief is driven by a narrow minded set of blinders? What if your belief is not informed by all the facts? The FBFI may be dying, or it may not be. The parachurch organizations of which you speak may be perfectly carrying out their mission. It just isn’t your mission. But again, if you are not part of them, why should they set their mission by what you think it should be?

Reevaluate your tactics. You have professed your intention to be confrontational and blunt. I wonder how you reconcile that with the command to let your speech be always with grace (Col 4:2), to be gentle with those who oppose (2 Tim 2:24-26), or to not rebuke an elder but entreat him as a father (1 Tim 5:1). I think we need to give those verses a lot of weight. I don’t think there are exceptions to them, particularly not in this case. If they don’t listen to you when you gently appeal, they probably won’t listen when you ramp up the volume and the accusations. The old saying has some merit that you are likely to catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Vinegar in the service of the gospel seems to have little value.

Reevaluate your priorities. Why be so intent on confronting an organization that you think is wrong and dying and of which you are consciously not a part of? Why not just let them be to do what they think is right, while you focus your efforts on your local church and community? Are there are a lot of people in your community who aren’t coming to your church because of the FBFI? Are there people you work with who question your testimony because of the FBFI? It seems to me that you are putting a lot of effort in something you don’t even care enough about to be sympathetic to, much less to join. Why expect an organization of which you are consciously and intentionally to share your purpose? I wonder if your efforts wouldn’t be better spent on making disciples of those around you.

I am not a part of the FBFI or the ACCC, so I don’t really care one way or the other. I don’t put a lot of thought into it and I don’t put much time in it. So my comments are not a defense of them. However, I know men in the FBFI and I know they are godly and committed men who see things differently than you do. And it is hard for me to imagine that they deserve the kind of attacks you are launching against them. Though they might not see eye to eye with you and me, they are brothers in the faith with many years of faithful ministry. I think we should be careful how we handle it.

BTW, some of your list doesn’t make a lot of sense. For instance, we don’t decide what’s important by who cares about it. Those two points need to go away, IMO.

The long and short of it is that if one requires a certain level of “decorum” to interact on a topic …

Yes, because Let your speech be always with grace doesn’t really mean “always.” It only means sometimes.

The servant of God ought to take a hint as to how He handled the Pharisees, and how David dealt with Shimei and the like.

And yet when this is done, people like Tyler, yourself, and others object. And once again, the irony seems to be completely missed.

I can’t help but think that 2 Tim 2:24-26 might help us here. Or perhaps 1 Tim 5:1. These verses are still in the Bible, and treating fellow believers like apostates doesn’t seem to be in accord with them.