What is your marital status?
Our views regarding divorce and remarriage differ quite a bit in this discussion forum. Such differences reflect our individual attempts to harmonize a number of Scriptures and Biblical pinciples, not from a “liberal-conservative” continuum.
SI is a very conservative website, but all our members live in the real world in a real culture. Our lives are never ideal, but some of us have more traditional situations than others.
The purpose of this poll is to get a handle on the reality of who we are. There is no intent to condemn, advise, or reprove. It is to measure what is, not necessary what should be.
I have been blessed to have been married once to the same woman for 36 years. Many of my dearest friends have not had the same blessing. It takes two people to get married, but it only takes one to divorce. I have seen this way too often. Sure, many break-ups involved two fairly-equal offenders. But, in my observation, not always and not even usually.
This could be a painful subject for many, so please feel no pressure to comment. If you do comment, I, for one, assume the best.
Also, I could not list the limitless choices if I added, “I was divorced before I was saved” or “I was divorced and remarried before I was saved” options. But you are free to comment.
Poll Results
What is your marital status?
I am married and neither I nor my spouse have been divorced. Votes: 41
I am engaged and divorced. Votes: 0
We are separated but still legally married. Votes: 0
I am in the process of divorce. Votes: 0
Other Votes: 0
I am married, but one of us has been divorced. Votes: 1
I am married, and one or more of us was a widow(er) and never divorced. Votes: 0
I am married, and one or more of us was a widow(er) and one or more of us was divorced. Votes: 0
I am single and never married. Votes: 0
I am single and divorced but not remarried. Votes: 1
I am single and a widow(er) but not remarried. Votes: 0
I am single or married but have a annulment in the past. Votes: 0
I am engaged and never divorced. Votes: 0
- 1 view
When I look at the results so far, with 92% of respondents replying, “I am married and neither I nor my spouse have been divorced,”
I wonder how to interpret this?
We know that the divorce rate for Christians is about the same as in the world. We can, perhaps, hope that the reason for such a lop-sided statistic is that being a fundamentalist fo solid conservative evangelical cuts the divorce rate down. However, another possibility looms:
Could it be that when fundamentalists/conservative evangelicals divorce, they leave the fundamnetalist/conservative evangelical fold?
"The Midrash Detective"
Odds that only two of 25 would have suffered divorce are .3%, according to my stats program, if the average is 35%. Yes, I know it’s said to be 50%, but where I’m going with this is that the stats are messy. One study that said that “we” divorce as much as everybody else didn’t even distinguish between “evangelicals” who do, and do not, go to church, if I remember right. Winnow things down to those who faithfully attend church, and there’s a huge difference—15-20% vs. our culture’s overall 31%, Shaunti Feldhahn estimates. This is also consistent with some data I saw out of Arkansas (from Huckabee) which, while bemoaning a high divorce rate, failed to put it in context of the number of marriages.
When I did a “hack” to come closer to that, I found that Arkansas divorce rates were actually lower than those elsewhere because their marriage rates were higher. If we were able to account for shacking up and breaking up, the differences would be even more significant.
In this case, while sometimes people do leave evangelicalism/fundamentalism upon divorce, what’s going on for the most part is you’ve got theologically and church committed people, many of us fairly whippersnapperish like myself, who are also interested in discussing theological issues online. It’s statistically similar, but on the low side, of Feldhahn’s estimates, which is about what you’d expect.
(in short; the peer reviewed articles are a mess for the most part, but when you look at the data using the right units, you start to see what’s really going on….and yes, this would indicate some problems in contemporary sociology)
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Neither I nor my wife are divorced, so I say this with no personal agenda, etc.
In the community in which I live (Kokomo, Indiana), it is almost the exception to have NOT been divorced. Of course we are a problem area that way — in the 1970’s, our county lead the US in percentage of divorce for population.
I think it is fair to say that church-going evangelical Christians in our area have as high a divorce rate as secular society. I know some extremely good Christians who have suffered divorce, usually as the victims of no-fault divorce or via situations so bad they had to initiate the process. Apparently this is not the same with our SI audience.
SI participants, as Bert suggested, are probably an anomally because of the fact we participate on such a serious Chrisitian site (vs. touchy feely). Bert has made some good observations.
I once read that liberal Jews had the lowest divorce rate. That might sound right, but (applying Bert’s principle) that might be because they shack up and don’t bother getting married (or they have open marriages).
"The Midrash Detective"
We know that the divorce rate for Christians is about the same as in the world.
This stat isn’t true.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2012/september/pastors-that-…
http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2014/february/marriage-divor…
[Ed Vasicek]Neither I nor my wife are divorced, so I say this with no personal agenda, etc.
In the community in which I live (Kokomo, Indiana), it is almost the exception to have NOT been divorced. Of course we are a problem area that way — in the 1970’s, our county lead the US in percentage of divorce for population.
I think it is fair to say that church-going evangelical Christians in our area have as high a divorce rate as secular society. I know some extremely good Christians who have suffered divorce, usually as the victims of no-fault divorce or via situations so bad they had to initiate the process. Apparently this is not the same with our SI audience.
SI participants, as Bert suggested, are probably an anomally because of the fact we participate on such a serious Chrisitian site (vs. touchy feely). Bert has made some good observations.
I once read that liberal Jews had the lowest divorce rate. That might sound right, but (applying Bert’s principle) that might be because they shack up and don’t bother getting married (or they have open marriages).
If there’s any truth to the bolded about liberal Jews, that is incredibly sad. That noted, another possibility is that—on the average and not always of course—liberal Jews also tend to be somewhat wealthier than average, and that cohort tends to be (a) liberal in their social views but (b) conservative in how they actually live. So we might or might not find more shacking up and the like among them—my guess is no.
And on the light side, I blame the Beach Boys’ song for Kokomo’s problems. I’m told that the beautiful white building at the beginning of the video is actually Ed’s house. :^)
(don’t go too much further in the video, because fans are not listening for spectacular instrumentation or vocal techniques….)
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
These articles did not impress me at all. Consider Stetzer’s headline,
Pastors: That Divorce Rate Stat You Quoted Was Probably Wrong
They both suggest care in quoting statistics, and that the stats might be wrong. Also, in the cases I have seen, divorced couples WOULD have said God was at the center of their marriages and lives at one time. But people change. I know a number of women I thought were conservative Christians (some of them much more conservative than me — at one time) and were very active in church, who, after about 20 years, decided there were greener pastures out there. From what I have heard, this “20 year women getting tired of their husband thing is a national phenomenon.”
I hope that our SI participants are behind the times in this matter and stay behind the times in this matter. I can believe — from observation — that the divorce rate among believers IS about the same as the world. Perhaps not exactly the same. At least in Indiana.
Our family is from the Chicago area, not central Indiana where we have settled. Incidentally, my wife and I are from non-evangelical families, and outside of one cousin on my side and two on hers, there are no divorces. Many are Roman Catholics, some Lutheran, agnostics, a couple are Baptist (they are two of the three divorced ones). The cousin on my side who is a believing Baptist is godly, but her husband precipitated things.
I have come to conclude that factors other than theology precipitate or prevent divorce, by and large. I would add the exception that when a man and wife are genuinely converted and walk closely with the Lord, that certainly makes a big difference. But all it takes is for one of them to waiver to precipitate divorce.
"The Midrash Detective"
…is my brother-in-law’s case. Back a few years, his wife was all into the Vision Forum/homeschooling/full quiver things, they were attending a fundamental Baptist church, and things appeared to be going swimmingly. Then his wife suffered some reverses, and interestingly she turned to feminism. It seems like polar opposites until I remember that even in the good days, she was the one calling the shots on most major decisions. The requirements of Scripture to actually submit were not functional in her life—somehow the process of sanctification had been arrested, and when the water got hot, so to speak, what was in that tea bag came out.
It’s not a divorce yet, but their marriage is pretty much on life support, and so I wonder if a lot of that fundagelical divorce rate—whether it’s 10% or 35% or 50%—really has a lot to do with people who think they’re growing in Christ, when in fact all that’s going on is outward conformity.
(and let’s be real about debating what the real rate is—whether it’s 10% or 50%„ it’s still too high,no?)
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
What would be meaningful would be identifying two samples of currently married professing Christian couples and non-believer couples today, and revisiting their marital status ten and twenty years from now.
The instantaneous snap-shot surveys don’t take into account the difficulties that have been mentioned such as divorce before coming to faith, one person saved during marriage, etc.
John B. Lee
Bert, the situation you described is one akin to what I have seen repeatedly.
And John, you are right. But I do have an “intelligence” advantage in my region, but remember, our area nurtures a culture of divorce. We have a number of divorced pastors in our area, some of them divorcing while in the ministry, remarrying, and continuing on nonetheless. Most of these are at least somewhat charismatic. A lot of people almost prefer untrained pastors who get excited. They don’t want pastors who really know theology, etc., and so it is also easy for them to accept divorced pastors because so many of the people themselves are divorced. On the one hand, people want the mysterious pastor of the big church — because they don’t really know him, he can be thought of as this wonderful, amazing man who is closer to God than the apostles. Or they want the man (or sometimes woman) they know well, but they want him/her to be not too different from them. They don’t want an imperfect man who knows God and His Word well and takes it all seriously in daily life. And being divorced is actually a draw for some people, strange as that may seem (although they would not admit it).
The doctrinally oriented Bible oriented churches are not nearly as bad about the standards for their pastors, but they still see a lot of divorces per population because of the broader evangelical culture’s influence. Having served in one place for 34 years, I could affirm that the divorce rate for church-attending believers is no better (in our area) than for unbelievers. But I know that central Indiana is atypical. I noticed a big difference when I moved here from the Chicago area.
Still, our area seems to be simply ahead of the times. The women here never stopped working after World War II as they did elsewhere. When women had factory jobs that paid good money, it became easier to trash their husbands. Additionally, both men and women found it easier to have affairs when they were constantly around one another. And so many men and women chose to take overtime that they neglected their marriages because of the love for the dollar. That, I think, began the cycle, which is multiplied with each new generation.
If we factor in all the couples shacking up, I think it is the exception to be married to the same person until death rather than shacking up, fooling around, or divorcing and/or multiple marriages.
God hates divorce. It is so sad to see.
"The Midrash Detective"
These articles did not impress me at all.
“People who seriously practice a traditional religious faith–whether Christian or other–have a divorce rate markedly lower than the general population.”
How does that mean that “We know the divorce rate for Christians is about the same as the world” as you said?
My guess is that the divorce rate is not close when you compare Christians to unbelievers. The numbers simply do not appear to bear that out. And experience doesn’t seem to bear that out, though admittedly experience is limited.
If you want to hang your hat on Ed’s headline “probably wrong,” then shouldn’t you also object to your own statement that we “know” that Christians divorce at about the same rate? We don’t “know” that. A highly qualified statistician says it probably isn’t true. I am curious, what do you know that Ed doesn’t know?
Sorry to be the editor here, but the wording of the first entry should be adjusted to be “I am married, and neither I nor my spouse has been divorced.” “Has,” not “have.” The “nor” makes it singular. A comma should go before the “and.” Thanks.
Discussion