The Sword of the Lord, Really The Scoop Shovel of Revivalism
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David:
I think we can all agree on a few things:
- John Rice was a good and godly man.
- He had a good and helpful paper; one with a proud place in the history of American Baptist fundamentalism
- That paper is not what it once was, and nobody should buy it anymore.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Here is an example from 2011 where Shelton Smith noted that he did not even consider the NIV a Bible. No, the current position of SOTL is emphatically NOT that KJVO simply provides another bulwark against theological liberalism. It is to attack other translations and textual families, and the people who use them. Those who use arguments like this need to be reminded of Jude 9 and John 13:35. We are not going to be recognized as His disciples because of our vicious personal attacks, after all.
Plus, it’s no bulwark against theological liberalism, but rather attacks the first fundamental by insisting on the TR to the exclusion of all other manuscripts. That, along with a rather “loose” interpretation of repentance and faith, and a rather kneejerk conflation of fundamental culture with Biblical truth, is a great reason to run, not walk, if you see a pile of SOTLs in a church you might attend. It was flaky in Rice’s time; it’s poison now.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
KJVO was a convenient shibboleth in its early days. If one wanted to know whether a church/school/preacher was “fundamental”, one simply asked “What Bible version do they use?” If they weren’t KJVO, they weren’t fundamental.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
I use the RSV. So, there!
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
I guess the John’s Gospel is heresy since it doesn’t mention the word repentance. There are some great theologians and preachers like Dr. Charles Ryrie, Lewis Sperry Chafer and Dr.Mike Cocoris who have pointed that out. Dr. Cocoris has a great book on the subject ( Repentance :The most Misunderstood Word in the Bible.
[Greg Roberts]I guess the John’s Gospel is heresy since it doesn’t mention the word repentance. There are some great theologians and preachers like Dr. Charles Ryrie, Lewis Sperry Chafer and Dr.Mike Cocoris who have pointed that out. Dr. Cocoris has a great book on the subject ( Repentance :The most Misunderstood Word in the Bible.
While it is true that John’s Gospel does not contain the word “repentance” (either in Greek or English, I believe), it’s somewhat saddening that people as eminent as Ryrie et al didn’t see the obvious reference to the concept in John 8:11 and elsewhere. It may not be explicit, but it certainly is implicit in the text.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
This is really bad logic. Actually, it’s no logic at all. The Apostle John never recorded Jesus specifically mentioning anything against felony home invasion, either - so I suppose we can’t be sure what Jesus actually thought about it, right? Like repentance, it must not be important for the Christian life. I also suppose Mark 1:14-15 is irrelevant.
I’ve also read Chafer’s entire soteriology section from his systematic very carefully. He absolutely believed in repentance, but he considered it a component of belief and faith. It is incorrect to say Chafer did not believe repentance was necessary for salvation.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Dr Chafer or Dr Ryrie didn’t understand repentance as defined by the writer of the original post. There are legitimate views that differ from the view being promoted. Jesus did mention HOME INVASION in Matthew 6 lol its in a reward section. PEACE
Putting aside for the moment the definition of repentance …
God grants it … it’s a gift:
- “When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (Acts 11:18)
- “In humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth” (2 Timothy 2:25)
Whether it is in John or not (my case would be that while the term “repentance” is not, the concept certainly is!), repentance, from the perspicuity of Scripture, clearly is part of the Gospel:
- “Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance …” Matthew 3:8
- “For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Matthew 9:13
- “and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47)
- “testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Acts 20:21)
- “For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.” (2 Cor 7:10)
- “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9)
Ron, I noticed that too, how pastors pictures where always prominent in their church advertisement in the Sword. I always felt uneasy when a church had a large colored picture of the pastor on the front of every church bulletin and I have even seen some Baptist churches that have the pastor’s picture on the church sign in front of the church and his name in print almost as large as the name of the church.
Richard E Brunt
[Richard Brunt]Ron, I noticed that too, how pastors pictures where always prominent in their church advertisement in the Sword. I always felt uneasy when a church had a large colored picture of the pastor on the front of every church bulletin and I have even seen some Baptist churches that have the pastor’s picture on the church sign in front of the church and his name in print almost as large as the name of the church.
[Larry Nelson]Richard Brunt wrote:
Ron, I noticed that too, how pastors pictures where always prominent in their church advertisement in the Sword. I always felt uneasy when a church had a large colored picture of the pastor on the front of every church bulletin and I have even seen some Baptist churches that have the pastor’s picture on the church sign in front of the church and his name in print almost as large as the name of the church.
It’s obviously the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Discussion