Ed Stetzer: "If we are pro-life, we are pro-refugee."

This is a complicated subject, and I doubt there is much scriptural support for any side of the argument…or there are plenty of passages that could be applied to support many sides of the argument.

Just because I value all life doesn’t mean I want all unvalued life around the world an opportunity to live in a country where their value is improved.

We must trust God that the leaders of our country are making decisions that are in accordance with his will, and lovingly accept those who believe mass acceptance of refugees is a poor decision. A person can have a godly world view and value all life and still believe it is wise to not allow those who have a completely different world view access to our country.

There is a massive difference between welcoming political and religious refugees from Cuba and throwing open a door of opportunity for people who may want to come here to create mischief in the name of Allah.

Why that is so hard for some to grasp is difficult for me to understand.

And, for contrast, there were 762 tragic murders in Chicago alone last year comparted to 0 people who were killed last year (or ever since the mid-70s) by a refugee-perpetrated terrorist attack.

I guess the Boston Marathon bombing, the attempted bombing at Times Square, and the shootings at OSU and in Chattanooga don’t count?

Stetzer and others cheapen the pro-life/anti-abortion position with fallacious and confusing arguments like these. Being pro-life/anti-abortion is apples, being pro-immigration is oranges. It’s the same wearisome argument that leftists use when they say you can’t be anti-abortion and pro-capital punishment. By trying to marry the two issues, they weaken both of them.

When I think of a refugee, I think of someone who leaves a country because that country can not protect them from people who wish to maim or kill them—and it strikes me that the Tsarnaev brothers eventually became “other than refugee”. It’s also worth noting that historically, we’ve had refugee camps which gave us a chance to figure out who was, and who was not, on the up and up.

I’m all for accepting refugees, but with the caveat that sometimes it’s hard to figure out who really is one. Stetzer should have admitted this difficulty.

[Jay]

And, for contrast, there were 762 tragic murders in Chicago alone last year comparted to 0 people who were killed last year (or ever since the mid-70s) by a refugee-perpetrated terrorist attack.

I guess the Boston Marathon bombing, the attempted bombing at Times Square, and the shootings at OSU and in Chattanooga don’t count?

It didn’t count because only the attempted OSU knifing was committed by a refugee. But even he didn’t become radicalized until years later he was in America.

the brothers with the Boston Marathon bombing-In 2002 they came into America on a tourist visa as little kids with their parents, not as refugees. Refugees are not rich and privileged, but rather poor, destitute, and vulnerable. Asylum seekers are usually rich and privileged. The parents later sought asylum. Refugees go through a much much more vigorous vetting process.

Attempted bombing at Times square-was not a refugee, but rather the son of a privileged military officer in Pakistan. Their family legally immigrated into the US

There wasn’t a shooting at OSU, but rather an attempted knifing. He was actually a refugee, but no one died and he was shot and killed.

Chattanooga gunman was a legal immigrant.

The point being, no person has died from a terrorist attack coming from a refugee in our country.

European countries have had its issues with the refugee population, but their vetting system is not nearly as extensive as the 21 point vetting system that takes around 2 years to go through if you are to come to America.

What I’ve heard from some Christians is the general idea that if we don’t allow refugees into the US we aren’t being Christian and if we do then we are. That may be a simplification, that is the general idea.

I disagree.

There are a lot of things we can do as a country and independently as believers to help others in crisis around the world that would show support, offer protection, and show Christian love.

Joel’s point that there are distinguishing features between asylum, ordinary immigration (if there is such a thing), and refugee status is well taken. That noted, it’s worth noting that most of the large Somali population in Minnesota consists of refugees and their children, and they’ve sent a fair number of terrorists back.

Now let’s be fair; if we’d left these people in Somalia, they’d have either ended up dead themselves, or had they lived, they might have done similar or worse terrorist acts at home. Plus, apart from outliers like Dahir Adan (the St. Cloud mall stabber), those engaging in terrorism are doing so…mostly somewhere else, for whatever reason.

Reality, though, is that some cost/benefit analysis ought to be done, and we ought to be honest about what things cost. I’m told most refugees are on government aid—are we willing to pay that? We certainly cannot accept every refugee in the world, no? My take is that we are not getting a good estimate of the cost (welfare vs. tax revenues, crime, etc..), and this leads to the perception that our government is needlessly exposing us to things we don’t want. Get a good accounting, and then we can discuss what we ought to do.

[Joeb]

Like the Mario boat lift Russia emptied their jails and sent us their thugs who were allegedly Jewish. Where do you think the Russian mob came from. So it has happened before. You know that good cause fight the communists.

Now these guys did not outright attack us but their schemes destroyed a lot of lives and cost us millions. One of their schemes was to mix toxic wastes with heating oil and let it be burned by apartment buildings all over NY and by Tractor Trailers. They also participate in human and drug trafficking.

So Stetzer’s argument is good to a point but this is just history repeating itself. All Trump is trying to do is do it right as far as I can see. We should learn from the past. Both sides have been idiots in this area.

Historical references for what Joe is getting at here: a good portion of the Cubans who fled Cuba during the Mariel boatlift in 1980 were indeed released from Cuban jails and mental hospitals. There was a toll to that. Regarding Jewish emigration from the Soviet Union, that was called Aliyah, and a portion of the “Russian Mafia” in the U.S. was indeed emigrant Jews. Another portion is some of the best engineers I’ve ever had the privilege of working with—lots of them made their way to my industry. So real issues, but two things at hand.

Dear Ed:

The next time you write an article telling Christians what to do, include a Scripture reference. At least one. You know, for appearances sake …

Being acquainted with a few Somali refugees who take trips back to Somalia occasionally—I had the privilege of teaching a cute as a button little girl how to swim a few weeks back—it strikes me that if we play our cards right with refugees, they will tend to become ambassadors on our behalf. Think Elisha feeding the invading army and all. So while I believe there are very real costs to accepting refugees in money, crime and, more, we can have very real benefits if we play our cards right.

Should we use the Sermon on the Mount as a guide for governmental actions? No. There is a vast difference between how Christians are to act individually, and the obligations of government. Should government turn the other cheek when someone threatens to harm US citizens? No. Government should protect its citizens, by force of arms if necessary. Should individuals render an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth? No. They should turn the other cheek. The eye for an eye instructions are for governments to guide public justice. Civil retribution must be just. Not a life for an eye, nor a slap on the wrist for a tooth, but an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. The recompense must be equal to the offense.

When we confuse the proper response required of civil government with that of individuals, we create bedlam.