John Piper: Should Christians Be Encouraged to Arm Themselves?

Piper wrote:

The concern is the forging of a disposition in Christians to use lethal force, not as policemen or soldiers, but as ordinary Christians in relation to harmful adversaries.

This may come down to the individual temperament of the Christian. Piper has always struck me as a soft kind of guy. I can’t ever see him firing a gun at all. Perhaps I’m wrong. However, in this blog post, Piper presents himself as a very soft guy. I would really wonder what he thinks about Christians in the military.

Other Christians, however, have no problem with the idea of killing somebody who is out to kill you. I am one of those people. The stereotype in secular culture is that of a redneck, Biblically illiterate Christian whi loves guns, America and Jesus - perhaps even in that order. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m simply saying that I have no problem killing anybody who is in the act of murdering other people. I’d do it gladly, and sleep quite well that night.

I have no doubt that, if there were an active shooter on campus at Piper’s seminary, he would be praying fervently for the Lord’s protection. That’s good. We need people like Piper. I am also certain, however, that people with guns will be on the way to kill the suspect. That’s good, too. We need people like that, too.

Piper’s article is still soft, though. I wish him luck on his pacifism. His explanation of what he would do if his wife’s life were threatened is, frankly, pathetic.

Tyler,

My challenge for you is to engage the Scriptures for his argument in order to counter his argument. He does makes a compelling case. At the same time, I think one can also make a compelling case for the use of force in a terrorist situation as an act of Loving Your Neighbor as Yourself in the same way those who hold to Just War theory do. By the way, he is not a true pacifist because he believes that the military and police are able to use lethal force. Personally I would have a very difficult time killing someone because I would be killing God’s image.

Joel:

This may come down to temperment again. When I was in the military police, I was on-scene for the aftermath of many incidents that involved dead bodies, brutal injuries, and terrible crimes against persons.

• I once nearly killed one stupid civilian female when she drove through the front gate without stopping when our base was at FPCON Charlie; she was literally seconds away from death. If I hadn’t recognized her at the last moment, I probably would have shot her.
• I spent two days with NCIS trying to track down a LTjg who mysteriously vanished from the base, only to find out that the guy had driven far away, put on his dress blues (just like poor Col. Markensen from A Few Good Men!) and hung himself. I didn’t cry or mourn the wastefulness of life, I just wish the guy had done all of us the favor of killing himself on-base to save us the trouble. He was Security Forces too; he could have done us that favor. He knew what we’d have to go through to find him. He was selfish to the end.
• I was at fatal traffic accident scene once when the guy’s supervisor showed up, drunk, and demanded to know what happened to his man. I tried to put him off, politely, but he was drunk, belligerent, and refused to be put off. I then bluntly told the guy his man was dead. The supervisor turned white, screamed, “Noooooo!” and ran away into the darkness. Me and the other Security Forces guys laughed at him.
• I once unintentionally made a young, female Corpsman watching her first autopsy faint when I told her, in great detail, what the small circular saw was for. I told her to watch for the dust as the pathologist cut off the top of the victim’s skull. “It’ll look like sawdust,” I told her, “but it’s really skull dust. Get it?” She fell down and her comrades had to drag her out of the room. To be fair, I didn’t know she’d faint … My partner and I went to Applebees and had ribs after the autopsy.

I know this isn’t “normal.” I know some of you would be horrified to hear this. Quite literally, some of us are just different from the rest of you. Maybe the military did it to me. I don’t know. All I know is that I couldn’t care less if I had to kill anybody. Reading John Piper fretting about how he fears he may be harboring bitterness if he dials 911 in an emergency fills me with two contradictory emotions: (1) extreme disgust at such pathetic wimpiness, and (2) honest admiration because that “sounds” so Christ-like.

I have no problem killing anybody if they are using deadly force on others. I don’t care if they’re made in Christ’s image. Why don’t I care? I think a lot of that has to do with the contexts that shaped us into the men we are. I respect your convictions, Joel. I just don’t share them at all.

I hardly know what to make of Piper. None of Piper’s exegesis applies to the case of one defending oneself against criminal assault. I can hardly believe that he would suggest a man should do nothing when his wife is being assaulted. Even crazier is the idea that one would not even call the police.

I think this is severely misguided. I wonder why so many so-called pro-life evangelicals are against qualified and trained people carrying guns in defense of life?

Here’s a few thoughts:

1. The commands against revenge probably do not extend to the defense of human life. They more likely apply to seeking revenge, not defending oneself from a threat. Shooting an intruder is not seeking revenge.
2. The commands to suffer are about suffering for the sake of the gospel and the sake of Jesus. They do not seem to apply to the defense of innocent human life, unless one is the act of preaching the gospel.
3. Piper seems to admit that his position undermines the principle of a justice system itself. He says that even calling the police in times of threat might reflect not having the mind of Jesus. Pressing charges against criminals or even calling the police when harmed can be seen as violating the return evil for evil.

Simply put, I don’t think people can live in the kind of world that Piper wants to create. I don’t think it is pro-life at all. You may be able to refuse to defend your own life, but I don’t think you have the right to do that for others

I find myself disagreeing with both Falwell and Piper in several places. I think I agree with Tyler that this is a matter of temperament, but disagree with him on the implications of that remark.
I love the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. I’ve owned a few different firearms during my brief lifetime. If I lived full-time in Tennessee rather than Togo, I’d probably have a concealed-carry permit. Why? Because I can; it’s my right. And I think that society is generally safer if well-trained, responsible people carry firearms in a safe manner. However, I need to keep a proper attitude toward that right and know when to lay it aside for the sake of others.

We have a right to arm ourselves, and we have a right to free speech. But how should Christians use these rights? How should a Christian think about those rights?

1 Corinthians 9:19-23 For although I am free from all people, I have made myself a slave to all, in order to win more people… To the weak I became weak, in order to win the weak. I have become all things to all people, so that I may by all means save some. Now I do all this because of the gospel, that I may become a partner in its benefits.

Paul was aware of his rights, but was willing to lay them all aside and become a slave for the opportunity to give the gospel. If we give up our rights we could very well be enslaved or killed! Are we willing to go that far for the gospel? Do we have the attitude (or temperament) of Christ?

Philippians 2:4-8 Everyone should look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage. Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death— even to death on a cross.

If we focus on our rights as Americans are we looking out for our own interests or the interests of others? Are we viewing our rights with the attitude of Jesus?

My rights aren’t as important as my attitude toward those rights. There is nothing wrong with exercising my rights… unless they are hindering me from being Christ’s witness. If my attitude and focus is on myself and my rights, then my focus is not of Christ, his gospel, and others. When I think about how many Muslims live in my area, is my first thought to check my self defense weapons? Or is my first thought to check my memory verses to share with them?

I’m not concerned with American Christians wanting and using their right to bear arms. My concern is with the attitude of certain people that we must defend our rights at all costs. My concern is with the attitude that my rights are paramount in comparison to my love for others.

It doesn’t help that politicians know how to press our buttons and that news stations know how to keep us entertained with fear. But we cannot give them undue influence over our emotions.

My rights aren’t as important as my obligation and joy in giving the gospel. The 2nd amendment won’t save me. My stockpile of ammo won’t save me. Jesus has saved me, and if I obsess about my rights and liberties those obsessions will hinder me from accomplishing my mission given by Him.

Jesus gave up His throne in heaven, the apostle Paul gave up his right to be paid for his work, what are we being asked to give up? Very little from what I can see.

A response:

“A Biblical Response to John Piper’s Denial of the Right to Bear Arms”

From 2008
Piper interviewed about “are you opposed to people owning guns?”

[apward]

I find myself disagreeing with both Falwell and Piper in several places. I think I agree with Tyler that this is a matter of temperament, but disagree with him on the implications of that remark.

I love the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. I’ve owned a few different firearms during my brief lifetime. If I lived full-time in Tennessee rather than Togo, I’d probably have a concealed-carry permit. Why? Because I can; it’s my right. And I think that society is generally safer if well-trained, responsible people carry firearms in a safe manner. However, I need to keep a proper attitude toward that right and know when to lay it aside for the sake of others.

We have a right to arm ourselves, and we have a right to free speech. But how should Christians use these rights? How should a Christian think about those rights?

1 Corinthians 9:19-23 For although I am free from all people, I have made myself a slave to all, in order to win more people… To the weak I became weak, in order to win the weak. I have become all things to all people, so that I may by all means save some. Now I do all this because of the gospel, that I may become a partner in its benefits.

Paul was aware of his rights, but was willing to lay them all aside and become a slave for the opportunity to give the gospel. If we give up our rights we could very well be enslaved or killed! Are we willing to go that far for the gospel? Do we have the attitude (or temperament) of Christ?

Philippians 2:4-8 Everyone should look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage. Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death— even to death on a cross.

If we focus on our rights as Americans are we looking out for our own interests or the interests of others? Are we viewing our rights with the attitude of Jesus?

My rights aren’t as important as my attitude toward those rights. There is nothing wrong with exercising my rights… unless they are hindering me from being Christ’s witness. If my attitude and focus is on myself and my rights, then my focus is not of Christ, his gospel, and others. When I think about how many Muslims live in my area, is my first thought to check my self defense weapons? Or is my first thought to check my memory verses to share with them?

I’m not concerned with American Christians wanting and using their right to bear arms. My concern is with the attitude of certain people that we must defend our rights at all costs. My concern is with the attitude that my rights are paramount in comparison to my love for others.

It doesn’t help that politicians know how to press our buttons and that news stations know how to keep us entertained with fear. But we cannot give them undue influence over our emotions.

My rights aren’t as important as my obligation and joy in giving the gospel. The 2nd amendment won’t save me. My stockpile of ammo won’t save me. Jesus has saved me, and if I obsess about my rights and liberties those obsessions will hinder me from accomplishing my mission given by Him.

Jesus gave up His throne in heaven, the apostle Paul gave up his right to be paid for his work, what are we being asked to give up? Very little from what I can see.

• In Acts 22:22-29, he spoke up and revealed that he was a Roman citizen when he was about to get flogged. He didn’t just say to himself, “Well, vengeance is God’s, and I need to just suffer wrong for the sake of the Gospel.” No, he stood up for his rights as a Roman citizen.
• In Acts 25:1-12, he appealed to Caesar rather than face death due to a Jewish ambush. Again, he did not passively submit to injustice, but used the rights available to him in that governmental system. (See also the examples of Esther and Nehemiah).

I know there’s no evidence that Paul had a sword to use for self-defense, but we need to keep all of these things in balance and look at the full tenor of Scripture. Certainly Paul was willing to deny his “rights” at times, but yet at other times he stood up for them and used them.

[apward]

From 2008

Piper interviewed about “are you opposed to people owning guns?”

Somebody wrote and asked me, “Would you protect your daughter if you had a gun?” I wrote back a one-word answer, “Probably,” and what I meant by it was that the circumstances are so unpredictable. What would you do? Shoot the guy in the head? Or shoot him in the chest? How about the leg? Or just throw the gun at him, or hit him over the head with it? Of course I’m going to protect my daughter! But I’m not aiming to kill anybody, especially an intruder who doesn’t know Christ and would go straight to hell, probably. Why would I want to do that if I could avoid it?

So no, I’m not a pacifist. I believe there should be a militia, and I believe in policemen with billy clubs and guns who should take out guys who are killing people. And I believe in a military to protect a land from aggression. And I believe that fathers should protect their children, even using force. But if they can avoid killing somebody, of course they should avoid killing somebody. And having a gun is a good way not to avoid killing somebody.

We don’t need guns in our houses.

Huh?

At the risk of seeming to be theologically shallow, let me be brutally honest here - Piper is a complete wimp.

I also agree that Piper appears to contradict himself. I just added that link to shed more light on his viewpoint.

Certainly Paul was willing to deny his “rights” at times, but yet at other times he stood up for them and used them.

I agree with you Greg, but it’s also good to see that Paul never used or laid aside his rights haphazardly. He thoughtfully chose to use them or lay them aside for a good reason. He did both with the attitude of Christ and for the glory of God.
I didn’t mean to imply that having the attitude of Christ means that we should always allow ourselves to be passively flogged or killed. But there may be a time it could come to that extreme point, and we need to have the proper attitude and perspective in both using and laying aside our rights. There were many times when Jesus wouldn’t allow the people to arrest, stone, or in other ways harm him. However, He did allow it at the right time for the right purpose. Likewise, Paul sometimes avoided persecution (Acts 9:23-25; 14:5-6; 22:21-29) and sometimes allowed it (Acts 21:10-13). And if we look closely at those examples we see that Paul both used and laid aside his rights in order to have the opportunity to preach the gospel. Paul’s primary concern was not it rights or personal safety, but the advancement of the gospel.

[TylerR]

At the risk of seeming to be theologically shallow, let me be brutally honest here - Piper is a complete wimp.

I won’t say that’s shallow, but I’d rather say that Piper employs an inconsistent hermeneutic and teaches potentially dangerous conclusions. And that’s unfortunate because as I look back at Piper’s ministry I see him frequently modeling good hermeneutics and exegesis. I wish that he would employ those good hermeneutics here because I believe Christians desperately need good, accurate, Biblical teaching on this issue.
The responses to Piper I have seen from JD Hall and McDurmon have good points, but I can’t agree with everything they wrote in those articles either.

Piper doesn’t comprehend that the gun isn’t to kill someone, the gun is to “stop the threat.” If death of the perp results, then so be it.