Baptist seminary professor and pastor outed on Ashley Madison commits suicide

There’s a fine line between acknowledging our sinful humanity, and tolerating our sinful humanity. That “he who is without sin” thing only goes so far, and yet how many of us would feel like our lives are over if our secret struggles became public? Our brothers and sisters need to know they can ask for help without being tarred and feathered, because none of us live without stumblingblocks and besetting sins.

It’s tragic that this man thought the only recourse for his sin was death, when Christ has freed us from that curse.

[Susan R]

There’s a fine line between acknowledging our sinful humanity, and tolerating our sinful humanity. That “he who is without sin” thing only goes so far, and yet how many of us would feel like our lives are over if our secret struggles became public? Our brothers and sisters need to know they can ask for help without being tarred and feathered, because none of us live without stumblingblocks and besetting sins.

It’s tragic that this man thought the only recourse for his sin was death, when Christ has freed us from that curse.

Christian leaders need to be mature in the faith, they need a level of spiritual progress where these types of sins do not manifest themselves. Clear standards exist and these need to be consistently observed and not struggled against. If a person in ministry is struggling, they should do the honorable thing and resign from duties of service. In their own heart they should know how consistent they are.

For the most part, all Christians should be bi-vocational, especially those in Christian service. It really bothers me to see folks who were never in a secular workspace but always attended Christian institutions and then stayed to teach after graduating. I do not know anything about this guy but am reacting to Susan’s post. If a person is in ministry, they are held to a higher standard. Christianity claims a new supernatural life which conquerors sinful impulses. Though we never arrive at perfection, a level of maturity is clearly spoken about for ministers.

During my time in Fundamentalism I saw many failures by leaders. These were leaders in legalistic systems. I often wondered if the legalism contributed to their failing. After all, if one is not relying on Christ to sanctify them, all hope is lost since no one has ever been righteous in themselves. Self discipline will never do. Only a new life in Christ progressively making us more like Him is the way.

[alex o.]

Susan R wrote:

There’s a fine line between acknowledging our sinful humanity, and tolerating our sinful humanity. That “he who is without sin” thing only goes so far, and yet how many of us would feel like our lives are over if our secret struggles became public? Our brothers and sisters need to know they can ask for help without being tarred and feathered, because none of us live without stumblingblocks and besetting sins.

It’s tragic that this man thought the only recourse for his sin was death, when Christ has freed us from that curse

Alex:

If a person in ministry is struggling, they should do the honorable thing and resign from duties of service. In their own heart they should know how consistent they are.

Thank God the apostle Peter didn’t fall into your unmerciful hands.

[alex o.]

Susan R wrote:

There’s a fine line between acknowledging our sinful humanity, and tolerating our sinful humanity. That “he who is without sin” thing only goes so far, and yet how many of us would feel like our lives are over if our secret struggles became public? Our brothers and sisters need to know they can ask for help without being tarred and feathered, because none of us live without stumblingblocks and besetting sins.

It’s tragic that this man thought the only recourse for his sin was death, when Christ has freed us from that curse.

Christian leaders need to be mature in the faith, they need a level of spiritual progress where these types of sins do not manifest themselves. Clear standards exist and these need to be consistently observed and not struggled against. If a person in ministry is struggling, they should do the honorable thing and resign from duties of service. In their own heart they should know how consistent they are.

For the most part, all Christians should be bi-vocational, especially those in Christian service. It really bothers me to see folks who were never in a secular workspace but always attended Christian institutions and then stayed to teach after graduating. I do not know anything about this guy but am reacting to Susan’s post. If a person is in ministry, they are held to a higher standard. Christianity claims a new supernatural life which conquerors sinful impulses. Though we never arrive at perfection, a level of maturity is clearly spoken about for ministers.

During my time in Fundamentalism I saw many failures by leaders. These were leaders in legalistic systems. I often wondered if the legalism contributed to their failing. After all, if one is not relying on Christ to sanctify them, all hope is lost since no one has ever been righteous in themselves. Self discipline will never do. Only a new life in Christ progressively making us more like Him is the way.

It’s ironic that you disagree with me, because I’m not disagreeing with you. I didn’t say that church leadership shouldn’t be held to a higher standard in order to retain their positions, or that they should be given a pass when they fail. Of course a church leader who is bound by a besetting sin should resign.

My point is that it is sometimes difficult to maintain the proper tension of condemnation of sin and the accompanying discipline with forgiveness - to the point where people feel trapped in their sin instead of knowing they can depend on their Christian brothers and sisters to forgive and restore them.

I don’t know what was going on in John Gibson’s mind, other than “This is hopeless”. As a pastor and teacher who supposedly understood the boundless nature of God’s grace and mercy, why did he come to the conclusion that the best way out was… out? Perhaps because it is because we not only don’t extend grace and mercy to our brethren, we are harsh and heartless in our judgments and desire retribution instead of restoration. That kind of attitude does seem to frequently emanate from the legalistic corner of Christianity.

Again - grace and mercy don’t mean ‘no consequences’.

The man registered on Madison. He was, according to one source, addicted to pornography. His secret sins were suddenly disclosed when Ashley Madison was hacked. He committed suicide.

Why does anyone assume that others are at fault for unwillingness to extend mercy and forgive? The only information I saw was a wife who stated that she would gladly have forgiven him. No one can say what would have happened with his school and church, since he didn’t give them a chance to respond.

I think we have to chalk it up to a man who was caught in sin, and deeply ashamed when he knew that he was caught. He couldn’t face the situation that he himself caused, namely that his reputation was now badly damaged. We might say destroyed. Forgiveness may not have been the issue at all. Just knowing that what people thought he was, and what was not revealed as the real man was too much for him to face. His guilty conscience, pride, and now shame were greater than he could bear. He committed the sin. He ended his life. It’s tragic. But I am disturbed that the immediate reaction of some seems to be that he was the victim of legalistic, unloving Christians. Hmmm. No evidence for that assumption that I can see.

[G. N. Barkman]

The man registered on Madison. He was, according to one source, addicted to pornography. His secret sins were suddenly disclosed when Ashley Madison was hacked. He committed suicide.

Why does anyone assume that others are at fault for unwillingness to extend mercy and forgive? The only information I saw was a wife who stated that she would gladly have forgiven him. No one can say what would have happened with his school and church, since he didn’t give them a chance to respond.

I’m not trying to draw conclusions about this situation, I’m asking questions - I apologize if I’m not being clear about that. I’m just trying to wrap my mind around the bleakness of that moment when death sounds like a great idea, even if it means leaving your family behind to deal with not only grieving for you, but all of the fallout from your actions.

Of course Gibson was ashamed and couldn’t face the situation, but what moves someone who is not only a Christian but spent his life teaching the Word to punch out? That’s a permanent ‘solution’ to a temporary situation. I’m sure there are many factors in play here, not the least of which is a lack of something in John Gibson’s heart, mind, and character. He is responsible for his actions.

However and IMO, there are pressures and attitudes in Christianity that significantly contribute to some people thinking there literally is no hope for them to recover - so why bother?

All of that to say when something like this happens, the only thing that we (those not directly involved) can do is discuss the principles and issues surrounding the situation. There’s no way to draw accurate conclusions without firsthand knowledge.

yes, Susan, this is what I was trying to do: discuss these issues for prospective Christian leaders.

I don’t know if this John Gibson was like Judas, an opportunist who would cheat and still look-the-part of a godly band, or if he was like the Corinthian who was in danger of being overwhelmed with grief and a true believer. He may not have resembled either.

It is unconscionable from what I know the bible says that Christian institutions are filled with power-tripping instructors posing as righteous. We ask young men and women to put their lives in danger of war at that age and yet same age folks in Christian institutions are treated as subjects of demotion for stupid infractions. The whole Christian-discipline movement ala Bob Jones is a sham, its just self-righteousness and evil.

Reread my first post to see dealing with these issues.

I have a friend who was a Bible College professor in a fundamental school. He got caught up in the sin of pornography. He repented. He is no longer a Bible College professor, but is a member in good standing in his church. He is a great example of repentance and his wife and his church are wonderful examples of forgiveness. These stories are painful and the consequences remain, but there can be happy endings.

Alex, this man was not part of a fundamentalist institution or any kind of “Bob Jones” type school.

It might be noted that, per the comments on the man’s wife being willing to forgive him and he took his life anyways, that we might wonder how we might better reach out to those who are afflicted by these sins—or for that matter to those who we have no idea whether they’ve got besetting sins or not. I had a recent exchange with the youth pastor where I noted I’d taken a liking to a young man who’s in high school but not in youth group—he lit up like he was famished and I’d just put a steak in front of him.

Now if chatting with a young man after church is so encouraging, let’s imagine really getting to know our brothers.

The young man is doing great, hoping for a football scholarship to Winona State. I’m glad for him.