Mars Hill Church planning to add 100 new video sites
USA Today: Multi-site churches mean pastors reach thousands
“Driscoll rooted the multisite model in history, citing Francis Asbury, the 18th-century founding bishop of Methodism in America. Asbury covered a quarter-million miles on foot and horseback launching churches: “Now, instead of a horse, we have a video screen. We’ve given it a high-tech upgrade.”
The queston that has never been answered for me is, in what sense is a “campus” in one state a part of the same local church (“assembly”) as a campus in another state?
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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
God certainly isn’t a model for ministry-from-a-distance.
I want to know and be known of my Pastor(s).
[Jim Peet] From Hebrews 13:24, “Greet all those who rule over you” (third of “those who rule over you” triad: Hebrews 13:7, “Remember”; Hebrews 13:17, “Obey”). How can a congregant have a relationship with a distant shepherd? How can a distant shepherd “they watch out for [the] souls” of remote sheep?Here is a brief (but not heavily explored) and immediate consideration to examine if one wishes to play advocate for the view of rule and care from a distance:
I want to know and be known of my Pastor(s).
A Pastor’s primary means of guard is through teaching which does not require a face to face relationship. And interestingly, Paul who had rule over the Pastors (I am not saying Paul wrote Hebrews I am simply citing him as an example for the question) as an Apostle and a man they indeed had to obey via his letters along with whole congregations did just that, rule from a distance and via communication outside of face to face. While he may have met with many or most congregations the overall constant for him was Apostolic rule from a distance and via communication outside of face to face. So there is some precedent for this in Scripture not to mention in many contexts outside of the church if one values such comparisons.
Given Pastor Driscoll’s view of elders, and their training in-house, there ought not be a concern that a campus church would have a video feed sermon with no more personal pastoral leadership in place. Our own churches often have multiple counselors eager to sit and pray with those who respond to an invitation. I dare consider the number of churches that have never trained a single pastor, but have their pulpits filled only by men from the outside, my own experience included. It is my prayer that I would be able to train and raise up my replacement from among those who labor here with me. How beautiful would it be if all of our discipleship did in fact lead to raising up and training up our future pastors from among our memberships!
Again I ask, In what sense is a campus in one state a part of the same local church (“assembly”) as a campus in another state?
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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
[Jonathan Charles] Yet, Paul did place pastors in churches (Timothy, Titus).It appears this response is directed toward my post and I will assume it is so that I may respond but if not, then forgive the assumption.
And of course the response is non sequitur, that is that the question or the concern is not how is authority and obedience to such ecclesiastical authority or doctrinal instruction accomplished up close or face to face but at a distant. We already understand the obvious which you are mentioning but that does not address the question I was responding to by Jim Peet:
How can a congregant have a relationship with a distant shepherd? How can a distant shepherd “they watch out for [the] souls” of remote sheep?And again I point out that there is precedent for distant authority, relationships and shepherding via Paul’s example. Paul was not only in authority over the Pastors but the congregations as well due to his Apostleship.
Someone asked how relationships with a distant shepherd can be done and how, at a distance, a shepherd can watch out for the souls of sheep. I am simply pointing out that it can be done and was done via Paul the Apostle. However, do not assume that it is my position that distant shepherding is desirable or something to purposely be pursued or that I support the church mentioned, the formula it is using or its Pastoral staff and its doctrine or any such ecclesiastical schematics, I am simply responding to the question not necessarily revealing my personal position.
I, personally, believe it can be done but should be done only out of necessity meaning that if there is not a qualified or appropriate Pastor/teacher from whom one can receive sound doctrine to which they can travel to and receive regular teaching. Then they, out of necessity, can receive shepherding from a distance and it is acceptable within the boundaries of Scripture.
*To the post mentioning the size of a congregation. I submit rather robustly that it is never, never, never anyone’s place, position or prerogative to determine, dictate or in any way attempt to set a boundary/limit regarding the size of a congregation. When a person is positive to the teaching ministry of a Pastor/teacher they are, by divine commission and protocol, free to chose to sit under that teacher and receive instruction. And anyone interfering with the exercise of that person’s priesthood is in violation of the privacy and exercise of the individual priesthood granted to them by God. Congregational size is irrelevant.
Are these works being established because there is no gospel witness in the community, or because there’s no “church like us” in the community? [I’m thinking here of the other thread where someone complained about missionaries saying “there’s no fundamental work where we’re going,” but further investigation reveals that there’s no work that smacks of our brand of fundamentalism.]
2) It takes away the interaction between pastor and people and reduces it a very impersonal setting at best.
3) It puffs up the ego of the one being “beamed” all over the place. Why not exercise humility and let others share in the preaching responsibility?
4) As others have said, why not plant a church instead of launching a venue. They could do it like Highview Baptist does in Louisville, KY…. one church in six locations.
[BryanBice] I’d be curious to see a study conducted in those areas where “satellite campuses” are established to determine whether or not true missionary church planting is occurring. In the four communities where I’ve seen satellite campuses set up, the vast majority of the people who flock to the new work leave other, established churches because of the celebrity being beamed in and/or the contemporary worship service/praise band which their dinky church can’t (and/or won’t) pull off.My thoughts exactly. We have a mega-church in our town, the pastor of whom is being cited more and more often on lists of up-and-coming churches of this style. Multiple thousands of people go there; video campuses have been set up in at least two other cities in our state, and more are being planned. I know many people who have left their local churches to attend this church. It’s exciting; it’s the newest thing in town. Meanwhile many churches are barely making a go of it because their good people have been drained off. Either these churches don’t have resources, or are unwilling to go the edgy direction of the megachurch.
Are these works being established because there is no gospel witness in the community, or because there’s no “church like us” in the community? [I’m thinking here of the other thread where someone complained about missionaries saying “there’s no fundamental work where we’re going,” but further investigation reveals that there’s no work that smacks of our brand of fundamentalism.]
When we first moved here 19 years ago, another church was “the” church to attend. It was never as big as the megachurch, but it was big. It was exciting. It was the place to be. That church is now essentially defunct. After awhile it ceased to be exciting as the people drained off to attend the next big place to go. (And, for the record, it started going downhill when the exciting original pastor left.)
It will be interesting to see where the local megachurch will be in ten years.
Discussion