The Fundamentalist Repulsion of Christian Worldview
The Fundamentalist Repulsion of Christian Worldview
Fundamentalists started their own schools and colleges and separated everyone from the world. The work in the world became meaningless. All that had meaning was the church. They so separated themselves from everyone that they left everything in the world, every institution to the godless. This was not the story of early American Christianity. Christians had their influence everywhere. They were the historians and the teachers and the philosophers.
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I suppose we can discuss what exactly happened 50-75 years ago, but the sad reality today is that Christians are no longer allowed to be the historians and teachers and philosophers. Evidence of Christian values is increasingly sufficient ammunition to force believers out of the secular work force.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
Only a righteous man, a regenerated child of God, understands the world, its history, present, and future. Man’s thinking was corrupted by the fall and without salvation, he doesn’t grasp God’s intended purpose and plan.
…Only true believers know or even can know what that is. God alone is the source of the universe, of His created order, the origin of the laws of physical nature, which we study in the natural sciences…
Actually Scripture doesn’t teach that only the regenerate are capable of understanding the Christian worldview. In varying degrees, lots of unbelievers embrace large portions of it. It’s true that unbelievers do not understand or accept the gospel, so the deeper you go into the Christian worldview, the less commonality you’ll find. But blessedly, bits and pieces of truth and wisdom are scattered all over the place and people do pick them up all the time without even knowing it.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
I recall encouraging students in a Christian school to witness to their unsaved friends and have them inform me that they didn’t have any unsaved friends. Their world, and ours as teachers, consisted of only professing Christians.
As to being able to live as a Christian and be a witness in the secular world, it can and is being done. My entire family work in worldly businesses. (One is in theater–which is almost as an ungodly group as his brother’s–the US Navy.) All of us have ample opportunities to witness of Christ and live out our faith. I might get in trouble if I started preaching in the lunch room or stuffed tracts in everyone’s lockers, but I’m thankful we’re not isolated from the world to which we are commanded to go.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
Separation has become isolation for many fundies. The church has become a fortress.
[Ron Bean]I recall encouraging students in a Christian school to witness to their unsaved friends and have them inform me that they didn’t have any unsaved friends. Their world, and ours as teachers, consisted of only professing Christians.
I firmly believe that esconsing Christian school kids in a Christian “bubble,” without any real opportunities to exercise or display their faith in the “real world,” is harmful. (I say this as someone who attended a Christian school from 1st to 12th grade.)
As an example, one thing that befuddles me is when I see Christian schools participating in the annual “See you at the Pole” day in September. (If you’re not familiar with it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/See_You_at_the_Pole ) The fact is that Christian schools invariably miss its whole point.
At public schools, where this event began, SYATP is decidedly not a school-sactioned event. (In contrast, at Christian schools where I’ve seen it, it is school-sanctioned. For example, it will appear on the school’s calendar. Teachers will promote it. Newsletters will remind students (and parents) to show up for it… )
At public schools, students who participate are being a witness to their peers. By being at the school’s flagpole that morning, they are saying to others, “I am a Christian.” They are able to identify & bond with others at the school who are believers. They may open themselves up to personal ridicule (in worst cases). They are being countercultural.
At Christian schools, it is simply another of already ample opportunities for students to pray. No one (ostensibly) will point or laugh at them. Who, exactly, are they being “salt and light” to?
IMO, a better way for Christian schools to participate in SYATP would be to find a prominent, public-property flagpole somewhere (government building, public park, etc.) and meet there on that morning. Pray aloud somewhere in public, and “let [their] light shine before others” (Matt 5:16 ESV)—in a public place that removes them from their comfort zone.
In 15 years of being a physicist, I can tell you exactly how many “real” Christians I have met other than me (who were PhD physicists I mean), 1. Exactly 1, and he was from Hong Kong and returned there. In all of those years I have never “won” a graduate student or fellow PhD to the Lord. In fact, I have never even found a slightly cracked open door. People that are physicists reject the entire worldview that is anything near Christian, and discussion is not welcome in general.
In secular universities I would say the situation is worse. While there are a few more “professing” Christians (but by no means fundamental in any sense), the attitudes of pro-homosexuality, pro-promiscuity, pro-drinking alcohol, pro-reject ANYTHING that is remotely seen as “traditional” (and Christianity is in that bag) are intense. In faculty senate sessions if I stood up and even remotely spoke my mind, I KNOW I would be fired and my view would be ignored and have no impact anyway. So, I do isolate myself a lot.
IMHO the academic science field is “irredeemable” in its present form, and so is academic education. There is nothing there worth associating with. It only will take you down if you snuggle up to it. That is why I SEPARATE from it while working in it.
It’s interesting, knowing that engineering is more or less applied physics, to consider my mostly Christian workplace in light of Mark’s comments. I get to encourage people who are probably every bit as smart as those Mark works with, but it’s simply that they are not in the physics ghetto. Interesting…..
And agreed that a lot of fundamentalists have simply confused separation with isolation.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Chip Van Emmerik]Ok, let me try this again. I posted earlier from my phone and accidently put my comment inside the quoted area of the previous posts. What it was supposed to say was this:Larry Nelson wrote:
Ron Bean wrote:larry
the biggest prob with syatfp is the ecumenism. i would not join an interfaith community prayer meeting to celebrate easter but that is what syatfp does. the group of so called christians who gather includes evsngelicals catholis jws mormons and everyone else under the sin all claiming the same name.
I recall encouraging students in a Christian school to witness to their unsaved friends and have them inform me that they didn’t have any unsaved friends. Their world, and ours as teachers, consisted of only professing Christians.
I firmly believe that esconsing Christian school kids in a Christian “bubble,” without any real opportunities to exercise or display their faith in the “real world,” is harmful. (I say this as someone who attended a Christian school from 1st to 12th grade.)
As an example, one thing that befuddles me is when I see Christian schools participating in the annual “See you at the Pole” day in September. (If you’re not familiar with it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/See_You_at_the_Pole ) The fact is that Christian schools invariably miss its whole point.
At public schools, where this event began, SYATP is decidedly not a school-sactioned event. (In contrast, at Christian schools where I’ve seen it, it is school-sanctioned. For example, it will appear on the school’s calendar. Teachers will promote it. Newsletters will remind students (and parents) to show up for it… )
At public schools, students who participate are being a witness to their peers. By being at the school’s flagpole that morning, they are saying to others, “I am a Christian.” They are able to identify & bond with others at the school who are believers. They may open themselves up to personal ridicule (in worst cases). They are being countercultural.
At Christian schools, it is simply another of already ample opportunities for students to pray. No one (ostensibly) will point or laugh at them. Who, exactly, are they being “salt and light” to?
IMO, a better way for Christian schools to participate in SYATP would be to find a prominent, public-property flagpole somewhere (government building, public park, etc.) and meet there on that morning. Pray aloud somewhere in public, and “let [their] light shine before others” (Matt 5:16 ESV)—in a public place that removes them from their comfort zone.
The biggest problem with “syatfp” is the ecumenism. As a pastor, I would not join an interfaith community prayer meeting to celebrate Easter, but that is exactly what “syatfp” does in the public school context. The group of “so-called” Christians who gather includes evangelicals, Catholics, JWs, Mormons and everyone else under the sun all claiming the same title of Christian. Far from promoting the name of Christ, it only obscures the Gospel.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
So I read this thread right after reading Neil Gamain’s “Why defend freedom of icky speech?” and thought I’d ask - How far should Christians go when it comes to supporting free speech, free exercise of religion, etc?
To be clear, I don’t believe we should ever support false doctrine in a church or evangelistic context, but if Christians oppose the expression of other religions in the public arena, are we shooting ourselves in the foot? Can we successfully support the freedom of religion so that we also are free to preach the Gospel? Or should we always oppose false doctrine, using our influence in gov’t (voting, protesting, etc) to fight against it?
Thinking out loud here…
Discussion