John Piper and Mark Driscoll: lessons not learned?

I made a comment asking whether Team Pyro was aware of John MacArthur’s salary. Others took it and went with it. It was simply a question, not an insinuation.

IN NO WAY DID I INSINUATE OR IMPLY ABOUT MACARTHUR. I WAS ASKING A QUESTION. AN HONEST QUESTION. I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR JOHN MACARTHUR.

Phil Johnson then came on and said he no longer was affiliated with Team Pyro, and said no one else had any connection with John MacArthur. OK. I take him at his word.

I am actually embarrassed that people think I was attacking John MacArthur when it was more a dig at the “flamethrowers” at Team Pyro (note, that is an attempt at humor)

Welcome.

FWIW, I don’t think it was totally unreasonable to associate Team Pyro with John MacArthur given that it was created (correct??) by Phil Johnson, who undoubtedly is. In my head (and I am sure others), Team Pyro is the blog mouth piece for that segment of Christianity.

So, when a Team Pyro guy lobs a grenade about Driscolls salary, is it unreasonable to ask IF TEAM PYRO IS AWARE of John MacArthur’s? Once again, I am not defending Driscoll, I am checking for hypocrisy.

Phil Johnson said he had nothing to do with Team Pyro anymore. The pyromaniacs blog bottom has the copyright:

2014 by Phil Johnson and the Pyromaniacs

Looks to me like Phil is still associated in some way…hence the confusion.

[TylerR]

That was by Don Henley himself as part of a solo album. Not the Eagles …

Kick ‘em when they’re up

Kick ‘em when they’re down

Yes, it is likely that Driscoll will appear again, sooner than later, with yet another apology, with yet another pledge to behave like a good boy, with undertones that it wasn’t his fault he left MH.

What is truly sad is that there will be thousands of willfully blind people ready to sign-up and go ga-ga over everything he says.

Those people are what Jonathan Gruber called the American people … . “Stupid.”

[DanPhillips]

So Mark_Smith attempts some wildly-offbase assertions and insinuations, is shown to be far off the mark, and his response is… “OK, can we move on!”

And this apparently is what all the regulars expect?

Nice.

From certain people– Yes. Some do not take to correction. Experience reveals that the effort is wasted.

1- I asked a question. No insinuation. No snarkiness. No assertions.

2- I then did a google search and found websites with John MacArthur’s 2011 salary. I posted the info by an edit of my original post.

3- Phil Johnson came on and said the 2011 numbers were inflated by an old Bible gift. I take him at his word and said OK…let’s move on.

4- Phil also says he is not connected with Pyro and Pyro is not connected with MacArthur. I said OK…let’s move on.

Where did I err?

His name is still listed as a pyromaniac on the website. It confirms he was the founder. The copyright info says “Phil Johnson and the pyromaniacs”.

Was assuming Phil is still a pyromaniac a horrible mistake?

Mark,

I just want to go on record that you need to rethink the difference between an honest question and an insinuation, especially when that question is about someone who is not the subject of the discussion and is placed along side documents that you tracked down about that person. Sure, you didn’t say that MacArthur’s salary was just like Driscoll’s, but it seems virtually impossible to miss the implication. And, by tossing this at the Pyro guys you were implying hypocrisy on their part. In fact, since you admit the point about checking for hypocrisy, then you must be admitting that you were suggesting something negative about MacArthur’s salary too (or there would be no hypocrisy).

If you had made all of this as an assertion and stuck to your guns, then your points could be evaluated on their merits. Instead, you made points in such a way that you can try to deny that you made them at all. That denial seems pretty hollow.

when I wrote the question I wasn’t thinking all of this!

I was thinking Pyro was associated in some way with MacArthur, I am sure he is paid well, I wonder if they know what that amount was given point #5 in the original link.

That is what I was thinking.

what does “are you done kicking your dog yet” mean?

Adding to what Dave Doran said, there were immediate results from your words Mark. Jonathan Charles responded with this: “No more donations to Grace to You, they seem to be doing fine.” Since Jonathan has not posted on this thread after Phil Johnson’s post, it is possible that he hasn’t read the information Phil provided, and its possible that he has passed along the misinformation to others. Would you consider sending Jonathan a private message to make sure he knows the full story?

By asking you if you stopped kicking your dog in the form of yes/no, I left you with no answer that avoids guilt. “Yes” means you had been kicking your dog; “No” means you are still kicking your dog. My question implies guilt. I was suggesting a comparison to your original question.

What am I supposed to tell him? How about you PM him?

What was John Macarthur’s salary in 2010, 2012 and 2013 from GTY so we can have a baseline? My question was DOES TEAM PYRO know MacArthur’s salary. Do you?

***Perhaps GTY would be better served by contacting donors annually and telling them the salary of the high paid staff?

And, Phil Johnson says you are not associated with John MacArthur, so what does it matter personally to you?

that is not my fault!

At www.gty.org they could every year put in a banner the previous year’s salaries for anyone who made more than $100,000 say. If John received nothing or very little, they could note that. They could then link an article justifying the salaries. When they don’t do that they leave people to wonder.

I am a public employee and every year my salary is posted on a Kansas state website, and published in the local paper…join the club!