The campus and assets of Northland International University gifted to Southern Seminary

I should back up to say that I am not up in arms that the former NIU is now a SBC institution. That’s fine with me. I didn’t care that they were transitioning to rock band worship (even though I commented my disagreement with the direction back when) because I was never sending my son there anyway. (He’s one of those someone referred to above—attends a state university close to home, lives with us, goes to the church he grew up in). I have no vested interest in Fundamentalism, The Movement. I just think this attitude of A) Northland should have had to brook no criticism, and B)the detractors are ultimately to blame for the demise and should be shamed is ridiculous.

For instance … Northland had stood against CCM. Then they put together a rock band almost literally without warning. There was going to be an outcry. Legitimate outcry. Legitimate disagreement voiced legitimately. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand.

David shows us a huge part of the issue for both Pillsbury and Northland, IMO. Is cultural fundamentalism—everything from no drinking, no dancing, suits and ties, facial hair restrictions, use of the KJV, etc..—compatible with the first fundamental, the inerrancy of Scripture? Can we sustain an outright prohibition of rock & roll music when Psalm 150 refers to the use of percussive instruments and dancing in worship? How do you dance without a beat?

Here is probably not the place, but we should seriously consider whether our cultural habits are compatible with Scripture. If they are not, then we’re not fundamentalists anymore. We’re Pharisees, making up our own rules and blaming Moses for it.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m no fan of CCM. It’s often musically lame, lyrically weak, and poetically malformed. It’s carob to a chocolate lover like myself. The trick is we need to evaluate it—and other things that many are concerned about—in terms of Scripture, not our own cultural habits.

Thank you for your perspective and thoughts, but let me respond.

As I’ve said repeatedly I am not as disappointed in NIU’s transition to Southern as I am upset at how the leadership behaved the past few years, managed the resources Paul Patz gave NIU, and treated its core, historical constituency.

As I heard a recent talking head on TV talk about Roger Goodell’s NFL leadership. The person said the reason why all of the attention about his leadership won’t go away is because Mr. Goodell won’t own up to his mistakes.

Likewise with Olson and NIU. As I said above, he and NIU made very public statements about how nothing has changed. So many people wanted NIU to change so passionately they failed to consider basic business 101 management principles about finances and customer management. If NIU wanted to change, OK, but obviously it should’ve been handled much better. The way it was handled is should be a textbook case of how NOT to manage an organization.

You want to change, great! Just do it the right way and at the very least say “Thank You” to all the people that allowed the previous version to exist.

Yet, we’ve yet to hear anyone really, “We screwed up!” If Olson and NIU were so public about saying nothing changed (and underhanded about many other things), don’t we deserve some kind of acknowledgement about the reality?

Some of the Olson supporters seem to wish those of us who are frustrated would just let bygones be bygones. Really?

You want this to go away sooner than later?

Then somebody needs to own it.

It is neither fair nor right for NIU to act like it did and now cry foul when people express their frustration. You cannot have it both ways! This is the bed NIU has made for itself.

Maybe you aren’t doing this, but it sounds like you are blaming the likes of Don and Lou for NIU’s problems.

When Olson on the one hand publicly proclaims nothing has changed while putting out a rock band and on the other hand secretly does the Big Daddy Weave thing, that will draw attention. If you say you haven’t changed, you will be examined to see if that is true. I would argue this is what Don & Lou did. In the case of NIU’s rock band, I found out about it via Lou’s blog - as I’m sure many others did because NIU wasn’t forthcoming about what they were doing.

As DavidO said NIU’s problems were not the default of the detractors. NIU made its own bed.

Regarding those that you mention who gossip and fuss about things like this, it certainly can be handled wrong and inappropriately. Definitely it can be destructive.

However, there is also a certain level of accountability that goes with the process. For example, if you say you aren’t changing, you will (& deserve to be) examined to see if that is true. This is especially true with an organization like NIU - or BJU or MBU.

NOT picking on you, Jay, but let me go further by saying I’m tired of people bashing fundamentalism saying they are too fuddy-duddy, won’t change, etc, etc. Folks, change for anyone is hard - especially when the organization is changing away from the standards it set for itself and taught for decades. Any organization that would change like NIU did would receive push-back. If UC Berkley suddenly said it was going to focus on training servant leaders for great commission living, they definitely would hear about it. Resistance to change is Not exclusive to fundyland, it is a human nature issue.

[DavidO]

But this derision (your house is left desolate, congrats, etc) of people who saw themselves (accurately or inaccurately) as part of the Northland constituency and who made protest (via whatever means) is simply improper. Because as you say, it was probably already over before Olson was fired, rehired, quit. And it was not the fault of the detractors.

Actually, David, I am being pointed for a reason.

I’m not addressing people that were dismayed and disappointed that NIU changed. I get that. I’ve gotten angry messages from that constituency that have told me that I was out of line, that I wasn’t a fundamentalist, that we liberals were destroying the Kingdom, etc, etc. One particular letter accused me of being a traitor as an alumnus because I didn’t support the old Northland and I don’t know anything because I’m not intimately involved with the school, etc.

I’m specifically going after people who are crying over the fact that the school closed, but who had absolutely no problem with ‘reporting’ the latest changes, with gossiping and slandering, with forwarding tidbits of information that put the school in a bad light without contacting NIU. First, a pertinent section from Proverbs 26:

18 Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death
19 is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, “I am only joking!”
20 For lack of wood the fire goes out, and where there is no whisperer, quarreling ceases.
21 As charcoal to hot embers and wood to fire, so is a quarrelsome man for kindling strife.
22 The words of a whisperer are like delicious morsels; they go down into the inner parts of the body.
23 Like the glaze covering an earthen vessel are fervent lips with an evil heart.
24 Whoever hates disguises himself with his lips and harbors deceit in his heart;
25 when he speaks graciously, believe him not, for there are seven abominations in his heart;
26 though his hatred be covered with deception, his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.

Some examples:

• Lou Martuneac’s gossiping, lying, and slandering blog that became the rallying point for the disaffected. Instead of calling Lou on his sin, many enabled it, shared in it, and passed it around. I don’t know why this guy keeps getting a pass, but it’s about time for some marking and avoiding of our own instead of ignoring it.
• One person who said that they were “mourning” the loss of NIU just this morning, but who had no problem forwarding me all of the latest rumors on different occasions and asking if I’d heard about whatever it was. When I asked if he’d contacted the school, he said no because it ‘spoke for itself’. Well, surprise - when I contacted the school myself about it, it wasn’t what he thought it was, and it was actually fairly benign. But the rumor and the lies spread anyway, and when I confronted him on that, he said that it ‘wasn’t a big deal’.
• Another believer, the first time I met him this year, wanted to know my opinion on where NIU was when I told him I was an NBBC alumnus. When I told him that I was disappointed in some of the decisions but I felt like the school would have to change to survive, he told me that he would get in private discussions on FB with the second person I mentioned and other people who supported the old NIU. He made no bones about the fact that they were gossiping about the school and were tearing it down in those conversations. My only regret is that I didn’t call him on it there and then, as I should have. This person should have known better.
• Another old alumna started a group on FB for the explicit purpose of ‘reporting’ all the salacious details from NIU in order to effect change and ‘restore the school’. Yeah - there was a lot of ‘restoration’ in that group, let me tell you.

Those are the people I’m aiming at. Don’t tell me they are sorry. They are the problem, and I do not apologize if I’m embarrassing them. They should be ashamed, because they sinned. If they had dealt with their concerns properly - if they had gone to the school and voiced their concerns and worked it out, as Ken McMaster said - this might have ended differently than it did. And now they have nothing. Serious question - outside of BJU, which literally cannot change without alienating everyone - what major fundamentalist institution do they have? I’ll wait for a reply.

Someone said this:

Is cultural fundamentalism—everything from no drinking, no dancing, suits and ties, facial hair restrictions, use of the KJV, etc..—compatible with the first fundamental, the inerrancy of Scripture? Can we sustain an outright prohibition of rock & roll music when Psalm 150 refers to the use of percussive instruments and dancing in worship? How do you dance without a beat?

Yes it is, according to the people that defended the Old NIU. That’s why I get so worked up on these conversations - because they are needlessly and divisively splitting the overall body of Christ because of their cultural practices with dress standards, bible versions, and yes, music guidelines. They are strife bringing, divisive schismatics who hide their intent under the cover of ‘sharing’ and ‘reporting’. They can’t defend their beliefs in open debate on SharperIron (if they have the courage to even try here), but they will certainly “mark and avoid” people like me that have different views, and they have no bones whatsoever about lying, gossiping, and slandering to defend ‘the truth’ or ‘fundamentalism’. And if you don’t believe me, go back and reread some of those Cultural Fundamentalism threads from 2013. Or go read Kevin Bauder’s report on the FBFI conference from this year. You’ll see it as clear as day.

So I do not apologize, at all. Someone mentioned calling a spade a spade…well, that’s what I’m doing. And if you don’t like it - tough. Truth hurts, and I’m not interested in pulling punches anymore for the sake of a false, lying, skin deep ‘unity’ with people who will stick a knife in my back if they think I’m out of line. They’ll know where I stand now.

Jay,

I understand better where you are coming from. The actions by various people you listed certainly is inappropriate behavior.

Regarding Lou, how do you say he has been lying? Unless I’m missing something he usually provides documentation to back-up the main premise of his thoughts.

I can appreciate your passion. Do not apologize! I am the same in my own way.

For many of us we are talking about something that has impacted our lives deeply. I was never a student there, but students, parents, & grandparents paid their hard-earned money, and you as a student paid with blood & sweat to pass classes and learn from leaders you trusted. A college is a place that often has a tremendous influence in molding us, where we make many life-long friends. It is a vital time in the shaping of our lives for the rest of our lives. This is why so many people are passionate about this situation. People viewed NIU as a unique & special place. Dr. O was definitely a significant factor in that perception.

This passion that I speak of is why what happened at NIU is so divisive. People seem to either love what NIU was doing in recent years or hated it. There aren’t as many people in the middle.

This passion is also Exactly why the management of an organization like NIU is so extremely important. This is something NIU and so many of the people that were in favor of the changes failed to properly understand.

Jay,

I think I have to concede the case of Martuneac.

I still have to say I definitely don’t see what Don J did to be as anywhere on that level, or sinful (a bit of snark here or there excepted, but I’m certainly not the person to cast that particular stone).

You’ve certainly been in the thick of it, and, especially since you are a grad, I don’t begrudge you your frustration.

Be well.

Ken,

Thanks for your response. I think in the end NIU was in a tough position. I liked some of the changes, but not necessarily all of the changes. I think fundamentalism in general is going to have to do a lot of soul searching as it looks at its college institutions. Both in how fundamentalism should address education, and also in how fundamentalist institutions address education in the broader aspects of the change that is going on in education (i.e. costs, online, accreditation….). I am glad that NIU just didn’t fall by the wayside. Time will tell. I think, in general, we all need to stop blaming change. There are fundamentalist institutions that are not changing and are dying a slow death, and some have already died. As long as I have been in this movement, and my parents and grandparents have been in this movement, lets face it, fundamentalism doesn’t like to change. Whether it is related to Biblical standards, practices, or just plain differences. Whether you agree with the changes at NIU, they made changes trying to save the school without sacrificing the fundamentals in their view. The campus and college is going to some great institutions. I have personal friends both at Boyce and Southern. I have seen their graduates, and we have all seen their president. They continue to produce top quality graduates. NIU wasn’t our college and it didn’t belong to fundamentalism. They don’t owe any accountability to us. Lets hope the Lord continues to use NIU for his glory and that it continues to turn out top quality graduates who are ready to serve the Lord.

NIU end is far superior:

• Pillsbury campus languished empty for 6 years
• Pillsbury staff left with unpaid contracts
• Pillsbury campus went into foreclosure and debtors were unpaid
• Pillsbury’s business stands as an embarrassment to the M.B.A. (the owners) [how not to manage a Bible college 101]
• Instead of being skewered on SharperIron (neither the board nor the leadership), rather a sympathetic article in the Baptist Bulletin: No mention of unpaid bills or unpaid employees!!!

Pillsbury details on Sharper Iron

Why don’t Fundamentalists DEMAND a higher standard of financial accountability? Seriously our music is better, our worship is superior, our standards of holiness and personal separation are higher, yet we don’t expect our institutions to meet standards of financial accountability (I could go on about the historical foot-dragging on standards of academic accreditation)

[Jim]

Why don’t Fundamentalists DEMAND a higher standard of financial accountability? Seriously our music is better, our worship is superior, our standards of holiness and personal separation are higher, yet we don’t expect our institutions to meet standards of financial accountability (I could go on about the historical foot-dragging on standards of academic accreditation)

I appreciate your response Ken. For some of you who are critical of Matt, the board and of anyone who has helped the present Northland in there new relationship with Southern - let me try a different approach to try and help you. So consider this - Pills is gone. Northland is no longer a Type A fundamentalist institution. Other institutions still connected to Type A fundamentalism are small or shrinking (with maybe one exception) or gone/soon gone. The reality is you who are committed to Type A baptist fundamentalism who refuse to be connected with Type B fundamentalism (think Tetreau)……or Type C fundamentalism (Think Mac, Northland or Dever) are going to watch (with a few exceptions) your churches and your institutions shrink because your denomination is shrinking. That doesn’t mean you have a bad denomination - it just means your smaller than you used to be. It is the new reality. Just as we see with smaller denominations (like Free Pres) - it maybe that you’ll only have enough students for one or two schools. Now as I suggested in my various “line in the sand” appeals over the last decade - it doesn’t have to be that way. Look - if you would be willing to allow a partnership with Type B and type C kinds of fundamentalists…..you probably could maintain a larger band-width. However, if you refuse to do that - you will continue to loose institutions, because the vast majority of your young people have and will continue to reject a pure “Type A” fundamentalism. Don’t blame Matt - it’s not his fault. It’s your fault! You taught your students soul-liberty and Biblical authority vs. tradition and those kids did there homework and discovered too much of Type A fundamentalism was built on the traditions of man instead of the doctrines of Scripture. So……here is the reality - Matt and the majority of the board came to an understanding to continue to be connected with Type A fundamentalism was not most consistent Biblically - and so they changed where they had too. God has now blessed that by the new relationship with the white hats of the SBC. I’m no prophet but I suggested 9 years ago we would see this sort of thing. I’m confident we will continue to see this and the eventual death of the old fundamntalism and the birth of a new fundamentalism. Of course numbers of you will say this is newevangelicalism but it isn’t. This probably is a return to the fundamentalism of the first generation which was far more Biblical the recent version. Hopefully this will help some of you who struggle.

As always - Straight Ahead!

jt

As the ministry at NIU enters this new phase, I’m sure that they will not miss the kind of love for brethren that’s been expressed here.

It’s easy to lay blame on a lot of people for the changes at Northland. I’d have to say the blame is widely shared among the board, Dr. Olson, and the Patzes. While much can be said against laying blame, it’s often helpful to identify the sources of the problem so that the same mistakes can be avoided in the future.

My parents, who attended Pillsbury in the late 70’s to early 80’s, saw several presidents make serious administrative and financial missteps after they graduated. This includes many compromises regarding the direction of the school in the early 90’s. Some changes were supposed to make Pillsbury more relevant and modern, but they alienated the fundamental base of the school and many pastors refused to send their young people there for many years. Pillsbury was somehow preserved by the work of the Lord through Dr. Robert Crane, who was president when my brother and sister were at PBBC, but the debt and compromise eventually doomed the school to an ignominious close by 2008.

Similar things happened at Northland. While PBBC was plagued by some rather selfish and short-sighted leaders from its inception (including, as hard as it is to admit, Parker, Clearwaters, and Rammel), Northland was built on perhaps a more solid foundation of the Patz legacy. However, ever since the spring semester of 2009 (in which my sister finished up her schooling at NIU to receive a PBBC degree), the direction of the school has been decidedly to the left. Financial decisions aside, the compromises (and I use that word purposely, as changes are often good and necessary, but compromise has often led to harmful consequences) that Northland made regarding conduct and separation were destructive to its core constituency’s faith in the school.

Like Dr. Crane did for Pillsbury, Daniel Patz could have brought NIU back to fundamentalism, but instead he chose to take it further than likely Dr. Olson could have dreamed. Dr. Mohler and the SBC will not carry on the ministry of Northland as it existed just some seven years ago. Honestly, as an acquaintance with the school who definitely would have considered attending in the absence of Pilly and the presence of what Northland used to be, I would rather see it close completely than join with the SBC. It’s like if my Baptist church decided to merge with the E Free church in town. The gospel is the same, but the direction and doctrinal stances of each church would be far too different to facilitate a peaceful combination.

I am a bit concerned that this could happen to my current school, Maranatha. Many of the students would like the University to take a more lax separation position, and while it’s good for a school to connect with the positions of its students, two schools have already tried it. One is dead and the other is now Boyce College North. Compromise just doesn’t work and that’s why I’m glad I don’t see any hint of that yet at Maranatha. The leaders here are dedicated to God’s Word and a forward direction for the school.

Northland is now as dead as Pillsbury. Sure, it’s around in name, but once the SBC realizes that there are no Southern Baptists in Wisconsin (or at least none that I’ve met in 12 years), they’ll have to sell the property. An SBC school simply will not survive in Wisconsin any longer than a cactus would. It’s a sad fate, but that’s what happens when you build a college on the northern edge of the world.

[AaronMikeFugate]

It’s easy to lay blame on a lot of people for the changes at Northland. I’d have to say the blame is widely shared among the board, Dr. Olson, and the Patzes. While much can be said against laying blame, it’s often helpful to identify the sources of the problem so that the same mistakes can be avoided in the future.

My parents, who attended Pillsbury in the late 70’s to early 80’s, saw several presidents make serious administrative and financial missteps after they graduated. This includes many compromises regarding the direction of the school in the early 90’s. Some changes were supposed to make Pillsbury more relevant and modern, but they alienated the fundamental base of the school and many pastors refused to send their young people there for many years. Pillsbury was somehow preserved by the work of the Lord through Dr. Robert Crane, who was president when my brother and sister were at PBBC, but the debt and compromise eventually doomed the school to an ignominious close by 2008.

Similar things happened at Northland. While PBBC was plagued by some rather selfish and short-sighted leaders from its inception (including, as hard as it is to admit, Parker, Clearwaters, and Rammel), Northland was built on perhaps a more solid foundation of the Patz legacy. However, ever since the spring semester of 2009 (in which my sister finished up her schooling at NIU to receive a PBBC degree), the direction of the school has been decidedly to the left. Financial decisions aside, the compromises (and I use that word purposely, as changes are often good and necessary, but compromise has often led to harmful consequences) that Northland made regarding conduct and separation were destructive to its core constituency’s faith in the school.

Like Dr. Crane did for Pillsbury, Daniel Patz could have brought NIU back to fundamentalism, but instead he chose to take it further than likely Dr. Olson could have dreamed. Dr. Mohler and the SBC will not carry on the ministry of Northland as it existed just some seven years ago. Honestly, as an acquaintance with the school who definitely would have considered attending in the absence of Pilly and the presence of what Northland used to be, I would rather see it close completely than join with the SBC. It’s like if my Baptist church decided to merge with the E Free church in town. The gospel is the same, but the direction and doctrinal stances of each church would be far too different to facilitate a peaceful combination.

I am a bit concerned that this could happen to my current school, Maranatha. Many of the students would like the University to take a more lax separation position, and while it’s good for a school to connect with the positions of its students, two schools have already tried it. One is dead and the other is now Boyce College North. Compromise just doesn’t work and that’s why I’m glad I don’t see any hint of that yet at Maranatha. The leaders here are dedicated to God’s Word and a forward direction for the school.

Northland is now as dead as Pillsbury. Sure, it’s around in name, but once the SBC realizes that there are no Southern Baptists in Wisconsin (or at least none that I’ve met in 12 years), they’ll have to sell the property. An SBC school simply will not survive in Wisconsin any longer than a cactus would. It’s a sad fate, but that’s what happens when you build a college on the northern edge of the world.