Was the American Revolution sinful?

I thought we were talking about your “friends” who oppose all revolt or opposition to government.

So, just to be clear, if a government forbids preaching the gospel, that could be rebelled against, but if a government forbid Christians (just for being Christian) from voting (which is not specifically mentioned in Scripture) that would have to be suffered through without opposition?

And by the way, since the Bible never specifically condemns slavery, then by that logic the abolition movement in the 19th century was sinful. In fact, the Bible says to keep in your station in which you were born. Since the Bible never specifically addresses treating one whole ethnic group unequally (ie black Americans) then there could be no opposition to Jim Crow laws and segregation. That makes the entire Civil Rights movement sinful. Is that what you think Greg?

So, just to be clear, if a government forbids preaching the gospel, that could be rebelled against, but if a government forbid Christians (just for being Christian) from voting (which is not specifically mentioned in Scripture) that would have to be suffered through without opposition?

Yes, that’s right…if you mean some kind of armed opposition. We are free to use whatever legal processes are available as citizens (which, in some places like the DPRK/NK, is nil).

And by the way, since the Bible never specifically condemns slavery, then by that logic the abolition movement in the 19th century was sinful. In fact, the Bible says to keep in your station in which you were born. Since the Bible never specifically addresses treating one whole ethnic group unequally (ie black Americans) then there could be no opposition to Jim Crow laws and segregation. That makes the entire Civil Rights movement sinful. Is that what you think Greg?

No, that’s not right. At the risk of gross oversimplification - minorities are humans created in the image of God and should be treated just the same as any other non-minority. To treat someone differently because of their skin color creates a sinful favoritism (James 2):

My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court? Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called?

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

And that’s aside from the teaching of Jesus in Luke 10:25-37:

And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.”

No, from the beginning I qualified that their are clearly situations in which we must obey God rather than men. But I have clear, Scripturally defined categories for those situations, and I’m not sure exactly what yours are.

You do understand that when Paul wrote that we should obey the government, that Christians were being persecuted by that government? So please explain to me how Paul, who forbade civil disobedience against a government that was actually killing Christians, would advocate civil disobedience against a government that forbids Christians from voting.

Mark, I really don’t know how much more clearly I can state this. Christians are free to use whatever legal means are desired and necessary to “fight” for their rights and the rights of others. For the most part, those in the abolition movement and the Civil Rights movement did just that.