Time to change Vacation Bible School?

All though I believe that the trinity is key Jim, I would not over emphasize that. For instance, the majority of OT saints did not understand the trinity and no one even today can fully understand it. I would say that to adhere to that creed would be better to say that one must have a basic understanding of it, and more importantly must not deny it. A child may not be able to have a complex discussion on what it exactly means when one talks about the relationship between the members of the trinity. But even a child can understand that God is 3 persons in 1 unit, if explained well. Also biblically the trinity is not part of the gospel and is not a requirement for salvation persay, as in we don’t explain the trinity and say that you have to believe and understand this before you accept salvation. Which makes adhering to that creed a bit complex.

[paynen] For instance, the majority of OT saints did not understand the trinity and no one even today can fully understand it.

On the OT Saints w regard to the Trinity: we can give them “a pass” because was not fully revealed to OT saints!

See: Theses on the Revelation of the Trinity: “The answer to the question, “was the Trinity made known in the Old Testament” runs parallel to the question of whether the gospel was. In both cases, Trinity and gospel, we must account for two factors: the consistency of God’s entire work of salvation, and for the newness in the revelation of “the mystery which was kept secret since the world began, and that in other ages it was not made known to the sons of men, but now is.” Epangel is not evangel, but they are both constitutive of God’s one message of salvation.”

Also:

• Yes “no one even today can fully understand it.” AND
• I am not talking about reciting a creed !

But: Should not the Trinity be a part of the Gospel presentation? I think so!

I didn’t “get” the Trinity until I went to Seminary. I wrote two research papers on the various Christological controversies on the early church (Nicea and Chalcedon) just so I could get a better grasp on the issues. I taught the deity of Christ in apologetics class at my church a few years back. I am specifically going through the Gospel of John on Sunday Mornings just so I can teach the deity of Christ (and the Trinity) as it comes up in that book. I still don’t think I “get” it real well, and I’ve spent a lot of time on it. I’m reading Athanasius’ works against the Arians just to get a better handle on it.

I don’t think the average lay Christian understands anything about the Trinity - perhaps because their Pastors don’t, either? I am quite certain you can take an average Christian and get them to agree with heresy (e.g. Modalism, Arianism) with little effort. If you come from a church where your orbit includes men with MDivs or better who are well-trained and can talk coherently about this issue, count yourself very lucky. That is not the norm.

A man I know became the pastor of a rural church that had faithfully conducted a VBS ministry every summer for nearly 30 years. When he arrived he canvassed the neighborhood and discovered large numbers of adults who had nothing to do with any church but considered themselves Christians because they had made a profession of faith at one of the church’s Vacation Bible Schools.

Tyler,

Regarding your statement “I am quite certain you can take an average Christian and get them to agree with heresy (e.g. Modalism, Arianism) with little effort” it reminds me of a story. I listened through Frank James III (RTS) Christian History on itunesu a while ago. He said in a Sunday School he was once at the people were discussing the Trinity and before it was over he heard every heresy related to the Trinity that has plagued church history. I appreciate my pastor’s constant reiteration of the Trinity. Especially since we just had some oneness Pentecostals visit the church.

Is the situation you describe really a fault in VBS in general? Or is it the fault of poor teaching on what salvation is? If that is the case then what happens the other 51 weeks of the year is probably bad too!

Compare salvation to citizenship. Many teach and want to believe that if you ever said a prayer of salvation you “got your heaven citizenship papers” and you are good, even if you never exercised your citizenship and voted in an election. A more proper view of salvation looks at your voting record to see if there is any evidence of claimed citizenship!

You can teach that better view of salvation at VBS, can’t you?

Good point on the Trinity, and I’d agree with Paynen that the problem is not with VBS alone—I’d wonder if the more precise formulation is “revivalism run amuck”, or what some would call “easy believeism”. Get them to pray a prayer, think they’re saved, find them 30 years later and they think they’re saved when they’ve never darkened the door of a church since. Knowing and understanding a touch of the Trinity is a good gut check on whether someone is actually becoming a disciple. Not that you have to understand everything about it—Athanasius himself makes that much clear—but getting the basic concept down. I’d tend to add an understanding of the Reformation cries (the solas, not TULIP) and the original Fundamentals as well, and probably also understanding how to present the Gospel to another person.

Good news from down here is that our Pastor is going to be following up with unchurched attendees of our VBS. Touch of discipleship going on there…..

One thing I’ve emphasized to our folks, and I’ll emphasize it again at our VBS planning meeting tomorrow evening, is that I don’t want to push kids for decisions. When you get to middle school, perhaps you can start doing that. Not with elementary age kids. Preach the Gospel. Talk about sin. Talk about Christ. Talk about penal substitutionary atonement. Talk about repentance. Talk about the Gospel. Talk about all that stuff - passionately. But I don’t think we ought to push kids that little for decisions. There’s too much of a danger of a false profession.

If a kid comes up, worried, and wants to know more - then talk to them. Don’t have an invitation. Don’t ask, “Who wants to burn in hell? Nobody? Ok, who wants to be in heaven with Jesus?!”

I don’t have all the answers. But I do think we shouldn’t push little kids for decisions. We should preach the Gospel and let the Holy Spirit work. We can push and prod adults. We can challenge them. We shouldn’t do it with little kids.

Can’t find it right now, but a few years ago I ran across an article delineating the difference between doctrines one has to believe to be saved and the doctrines one simply cannot deny and still be saved. The Trinity fell in the latter list. One need not know anything about the Trinity to be saved, but one cannot deny the Trinity in any way and still be considered a believer.

On a separate track, I think Bert is right. The problem is not VBS per se; it is easy-believeism - an emotional religiosity that has been growing in the American church since Finney. Our church has been using a fantastic little booklet by James Adams called Decisional Regeneration vs. Divine Regeneration to combat this kind of theological error, and it has provided great clarity for our folks. My copy is missing right now, so I cannot verify if this link is the full text or an overview, but it provides a starting point for anyone interested.