“It is the Price of Citizenship”?—An Elegy for Religious Liberty in America

[Wayne Wilson]

But for the sake of argument, if you were a wedding photographer, and if someday child brides become legal here, would you just “take the money” and photograph the wedding of a 50 year old man to a child? Just curious.

Answered:

  • In 1988 a 54 yr old woman in my church (she was a member) was dating a 26 yr old man
  • They wanted me to marry them on 8/8/88
  • It was legal!
  • They were going to pay me (you know as much as an honorarium as a pastor would typically receive)
  • I wasn’t to be the wedding photographer … I was the officiant!
  • It was very weird and he hadn’t told his mother yet
  • And I refused to participate

[christian cerna]

Did they end up married?

Is she still a member? (the 54 y/o woman)

What happened:

  • The woman left the church - angry at me
  • They did not get married

I was concerned about the relationship from the get go:

  • She had been a regular attender until the “dating” started
  • He rarely came
  • What convinced me is that when I met with them:
    • His parents were unaware of the relationship
    • And he was reluctant to tell them

not bad.

keeping the thread going. Without your comments, we’d only be “amening” each other’s remarks. Your arguments here are not consistent with how you argue in other threads. To compare participating in a wedding ceremony to buying gas is ludicrous.

Jim’s comments aside, how should churches respond to members who have small businesses that serve the wedding industry? If the church declares a position against so called “same-sex marriage,” how should the church respond when its member who owns a limousine business accepts a job for two homosexuals to ride in his vehicle following their ceremony? Is this a matter of conscience or should the church discipline its dress maker member because she sewed a gown for a lesbian?

These are not simple “what if’s?” This is now the reality in my state of Minnesota.

[Mike Verway]…. how should churches respond to members who have small businesses that serve the wedding industry? If the church declares a position against so called “same-sex marriage,” how should the church respond when its member who owns a limousine business accepts a job for two homosexuals to ride in his vehicle following their ceremony? Is this a matter of conscience or should the church discipline its dress maker member because she sewed a gown for a lesbian?

These are not simple “what if’s?” This is now the reality in my state of Minnesota.

It would be ludicrous for the church to get involved!

  • How about a Christian taxi cab driver who accepts any fare?
  • A plumber fixes the toilet of a homosexual couple?
  • A banker writes a mortgage for a gay couple?

I mean really!!!

However the ludicrous are among us. It never pays to bet against them or their rising.

[Jim]

[Mike Verway]…. how should churches respond to members who have small businesses that serve the wedding industry? If the church declares a position against so called “same-sex marriage,” how should the church respond when its member who owns a limousine business accepts a job for two homosexuals to ride in his vehicle following their ceremony? Is this a matter of conscience or should the church discipline its dress maker member because she sewed a gown for a lesbian?

These are not simple “what if’s?” This is now the reality in my state of Minnesota.

It would be ludicrous for the church to get involved!

  • How about a Christian taxi cab driver who accepts any fare?
  • A plumber fixes the toilet of a homosexual couple?
  • A banker writes a mortgage for a gay couple?

I mean really!!!

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

[Mike Verway] To compare participating in a wedding ceremony to buying gas is ludicrous.

I did not so equate. I used the gas station as an example of discrimination

[Mike Verway]…how should the church respond when its member who owns a limousine business accepts a job for two homosexuals to ride in his vehicle following their ceremony?

My guess is that it would be illegal in MN to discriminate based upon sexual preference with regard to transportation

I have always thought that discrimination ought to be allowed for any basis. If there is a market for the discriminated party’s commerce, someone will do business with them. Then the only person who truly suffers is the one who discriminates. Why not allow the market to determine it?

If you go far enough allowing discrimination of conscience, you end up back in segregation. Many (most?) racist whites of the early 1900s would have claimed the right of conscience to “protect” their families and communities by segregation, and would have claimed biblical support for their position.

In the current discussion, I think the answer to Jim’s question regarding the difference between the plumber (or mechanic or whatever) and the photographer (or dress maker or whatever) is the level of endorsement offered by the service. If my service can be construed as supporting or endorsing the sinfulness, then my conscience forbids me from participating. Installing a bathroom toilet does not endorse the homosexual lifestyle, but enshrining (or facilitating) the commitment ceremony of a homosexual couple might be construed that way. It seems the photographer approached this situation in the same way Jim did with the wedding he refused to officiate.

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

It would be ludicrous for the church to get involved!

There are any number of situations where one’s occupation may conflict with his conscience and with the testimony of his local church to which he has covenanted in membership. Is it none of the church’s business in any of these matters?

Considering how much of Hollywood employs and supports homosexuality, has anyone tossed their TV out the window yet? Has anyone recommended a movie or TV show lately where the actors were homo/bisexual? Does anyone’s church discipline members who purchase DVDs of movies? Are those things really all that different from driving a gay couple to their wedding or taking their picture? In the second instance, they are paying you for a service, but in the first instance, you’re paying them. Which one is more of an endorsement?