BIOLA grad details how she graduated debt free

During my Bible College years (I came as a 26 year old with a new baby), The Lord provided factory work, 40-65 hours a week. Took extra time to finish school, but was debt free and able to start ministry in a smaller church, where they loved us and let me learn and grow.

we should be as diligent as possible to avoid the bonds of debt

Nothing earth-shaking there; just good, common sense advice. I appreciated that she was realistic too. If you can’t quite graduate debt free, at least you can graduate with far less debt than the average. I crammed my BA into 7 1/2 years because I had to keep stopping to work, but I graduated debt free. Makes a huge difference on a young family, particularly if one or both of you want to engage in vocational ministry (as my wife and I did) or you want mom to be able to stay at home when the kids start coming along (as my wife and I did).

This is not the story I expected … because:

• It was in the Wall Street Journal
• Biola grad
• Private school
• Young woman (not because she is a woman but because she is young. It’s easier to have graduated debt free for those of us who are older (before the tuition bubble fueled by EZ student debt)

Altogether a good article with practical advice.

I was able to do the same. I worked two full time jobs during the summer and worked almost 40 hours a week during the school year on campus (even though I wasn’t really suppose to). My grades suffered, but at least I didn’t have debt when I graduated. One thing, that I learned at the end, which has carried me through life, was no matter how poor people appear to be, or how hard it is to get a job, you just need to be innovative and better than the other individual and you can be a recipient of that money. It was only in my last two months at college where I took a problem - poor college students were working on Saturday morning off site for people and were getting up too early before the dining common would open. I found out that Krispy Kreme would discount their donuts significantly the greater the quantity that you bought. If I bought enough I could buy then $2.50 and sell them for $5. I worked out a service where I would collect money from the students on Friday night, I would place an order with Krispy Kreme before light bell, drive my pickup truck to the loading dock on Saturday morning and load up and deliver a fresh dozen of hot donuts inside the door of every room that ordered and have them there before they woke up. They got fresh donuts for $0.50 less than it would cost to pick them up themselves. By my second month I was taking almost 100 orders a week and making almost $1,000 a month for a few hours worth of work. If I had learned this before, I wouldn’t have needed to take a full day of Saturday work while only making $40.

When my wife and I were in college - she (1969-73) … me (1967-71) - there was no borrowing. So it was not possible to get into debt. If you didn’t have enough $$, you would wait out a semester.

There was very little credit available for young adults. I had a Gulf gas card with a $ 100 limit.

but follow all of the above advice if you couldn’t care less about learning. Hey, if all you’re looking for is a piece of paper with your name on it, go ahead.

I was a physics/mathematics double major. I took 15+ hours a semester with real course work assumed to be done. You know, real home work, like calculus, physics home work. I couldn’t work more than about 10 hours a week at an on campus job. I also had about 15 hours a week of lab time…chemistry, physics, etc.

I graduated with a BS with less than $6500 debt in 2001, and every dime of that debt was worth it when I got into a physics graduate school that assumed I actually learned something in undergrad and didn’t work 40+ hours, do little of the work, and graduate with a 2.01 GPA.

My favorite advice of the column above was to RAISE CATTLE!!!!!!!!! Also, become a wedding photographer…Hey, I thought I was going to college to learn a new skill. I guess not.

Perhaps some of this advice works for a Bible degree, I don’t know, but to get a degree in Math and Physics took REAL EFFORT AND FOCUS ON THE SUBJECT I WAS LEARNING IN SCHOOL.

In my opinion these types of conversations are pretty tough to have because everyone is at a different level. I have a friend who is a bi-vocational pastor that works full time in his secular job and is taking one or two classes a semester in a PHD program. He has five children and is still an excellent father. I however could never do that. I am starting full time school this semester while also working full time and I have only two children. That will llikely be the absolute limit of what I can handle. The point is that some people can easily graduate without debt but for others it is a struggle. For someone pursuing the ministry like myself it seems prudent to graduate debt free but for someone who is going to go right in to a high paying job a little debt might not be too terrible.

that for every 3 hours of in-class time each week, you are supposed to do 6 hours of work to study for that class? So a 3 credit hour class is supposed to account for 9 hours each week. At that rate a 15 hour schedule is 45 hours per week…yes, that makes it a full-time job.

All too often “students”, especially the general education students (not the science majors since I am a science professor), now-a-days take 15 hours of classes, work 40 hours, are married with kids, and then complain to me (I am a professor at a secular college) that my class it too hard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They want to show up, do little to no work, and get credit for it…Ain’t happening in this professor’s class.

[Mark_Smith]

that for every 3 hours of in-class time each week, you are supposed to do 6 hours of work to study for that class? So a 3 credit hour class is supposed to account for 9 hours each week. At that rate a 15 hour schedule is 45 hours per week…yes, that makes it a full-time job.

All too often “students”, especially the general education students (not the science majors since I am a science professor), now-a-days take 15 hours of classes, work 40 hours, are married with kids, and then complain to me (I am a professor at a secular college) that my class it too hard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They want to show up, do little to no work, and get credit for it…Ain’t happening in this professor’s class.

This comes across as more than a little condescending. First of all, you make it sound like science majors are the only ones really working in school. Second, everyone functions at a different level. What takes you three hours to accomplish might only take me an hour, or vice versa. Third, I am in education as well and have never seen the 1-2 ratio of class to out of class time you mandate. I agree that many students approach classes with an entitlement mentality. However, that does not equate to no one being able to accomplish rigorous classwork while working a substantial job.

[josh p]

In my opinion these types of conversations are pretty tough to have because everyone is at a different level. I have a friend who is a bi-vocational pastor that works full time in his secular job and is taking one or two classes a semester in a PHD program. He has five children and is still an excellent father. I however could never do that. I am starting full time school this semester while also working full time and I have only two children. That will llikely be the absolute limit of what I can handle. The point is that some people can easily graduate without debt but for others it is a struggle. For someone pursuing the ministry like myself it seems prudent to graduate debt free but for someone who is going to go right in to a high paying job a little debt might not be too terrible.

There are no employment certainties. How many graduates in the last five years expected to go right into a high paying job but couldn’t find work because of the state of the economy? Biblically, the best pattern is to do everything reasonably within our power to avoid debt as much as possible. The borrower is still servant of the lender (Proverbs 22:7). That doesn’t make debt innately sinful, though I think many believers will have to give an account for unwise and unnecessary debt someday when they stand before the Lord. In some cases, I don’t think it is possible to graduate from college completely debt free without stretching school out over 40 years. On the other hand, I don’t know many college students who couldn’t get by more cheaply or afford to stretch school out a couple of years in order to reduce or eliminate debt. There is no universal law that says we must finish our BA in 4 years, or else we have somehow failed.

I can’t speak for Christian schools, never attended one and know little about them. If you dig at almost any university’s website, you will find something that defines what a Credit Hour is. In that document it will say that for each 1 hour of class time, 2 hours of outside time is expected.

Of course, if you can do the work in 30 minutes so be it…

My point is that too many students, from 5 years experience teaching general education science classes at the university level (that is 5 years AFTER earning a PhD and not counting teaching time in grad school), think school is a joke. All they want is a piece of paper and a job afterwards. They care little about learning. This attitude permeates the average modern “student”.

To any one who says I graduated from college debt free by working 40+ hours a week, I ask, “what did you learn?”

[Jim]

When my wife and I were in college - she (1969-73) … me (1967-71) - there was no borrowing. So it was not possible to get into debt. If you didn’t have enough $$, you would wait out a semester.

There was very little credit available for young adults. I had a Gulf gas card with a $ 100 limit.

Yeah but Jim, wasn’t $100 worth of gas back then about a year’s worth?

Mark wrote: To any one who says I graduated from college debt free by working 40+ hours a week, I ask, “what did you learn?”

I graduated from college debt free after working 50 hours a week - and taking 20+ credits semester for the first two years until I ran out of money - and maintaining better than a 3.5 gpa (not as good as my graduate work, but I wasn’t as serious about life then). Of course, I stretched my BA into 7 1/2 years and only needed about 4-5 hours of sleep a night back then. However, I learned a lot carrying a double major in Bible and secondary education.

Two observations. First, just to reiterate, the point you are trying to make does not require such big blanket statements. Second, having attended both Christian and secular schools, I think you might find the students at a Christian college more serious about what they are doing. That’s not to say that they are perfect, or that the entitlement problem you are highlighting doesn’t still come up, because it does. (I had an undergrad classmate who took 12 hours a semester and worked 15 hours a week because parents were footing the bill but always complained about the weight of her load in life). I’m just saying that you frequently find students at Christian college/university on a “mission” and determined to find a way to make it happen. I have known many of these types of students over the years who sacrificed to accomplish the goals they had set - and those goals included far more than getting a piece of paper.

You worked 50 hours a week AND took 20+ hours of classes? AND kept a 3.5 gpa doing it?

Did you walk up hill both ways in the snow with the wind blowing 60 mph as well?

You should be glad you didn’t enroll in my class…no way you’d have made it.

I guess what I’m thinking about your case is that if college was so easy that you could accomplish it with so little effort at actually learning, then it was something you could teach yourself and you didn’t need school. All you wanted was a sheet of paper so you could go get a job…