Andy Naselli: How to Disagree with Other Christians about Disputable Matters

AN is saying Music, Alcohol, End Times, etc…are issues that no one can have enforceable absolutes on. Live and let live. Do you agree with that? Half your church wants a smoking section out back, no problem. Its a 3rd Level issue…don’t cause a ruckus over that one.

Mark,

You are giving little evidence to show that the issues you mention are indeed worthy of being absolutes. I’m pretty sure that most of us here would not be comfortable with the idea of “smoking sections out back of the church,” or Bible studies over margaritas at a local Mexican restaurant, but your painting of Naselli’s arguments in extreme terms is doing little to bolster what you are arguing.

Your rhetorical statements wouldn’t be out of place however, in a typical sermon with a lot of posturing and little exposition — the type that many that have grown up in fundamentalism are used to hearing, which are exactly the types of messages that have driven people completely to the evangelical side. Poor argumentation, even in support of something good and right, rather than helping, usually does more damage.

i think that things can float a little btwn levels 2 and 3 depending on the pastor/context. like he mentioned roles of women in the church and home as a level 2 issue. to me it is a level 3 issue, except for ordination.

V, my husband, is calvin-ish in his approach to many questions but he allows arminian-ish men to preach. even when it comes out in their sermons. that’s a level 2, i think.

we let people who speak in tongues join our church with the understanding that they won’t practice or promote it. we don’t force them to repudiate it. some of them grow out of it… like, the charismatic grandmas met together of their own volition, a few yrs back, and decided to stop practicing it all together.

?

[Mark_Smith]

Of course some of the things AN listed as 3rd level are divisible. That is because they are actually 2nd level! In AN’s world pre-trib/post-trib/amillennial are equally supported in Scripture. Good men have disagreed over them goes the mantra, so live and let be. Maybe in his church…or blog, rather, but not in mine. Really, if you are pre-trib would you feel at home sitting through a 30 week study of Revelation from a Partial Preterist Amillennial point of view? Then act like all is good? Plus, after service you meet your friends from church for lunch at the Mexican restaurant and your friend buys a Margarita. All good right? We are agreeing to disagree.

This is pure hogwash. It won’t work in the real world.

Mark,

The issue is not whether you agree with it, but whether we separate over it. I agree that if you are pretrib, you probably would not sit through the 30 week study on Revelation. You may not even choose to go to that church. That is fine. But that is a personal standard/belief. But the other church or believers are not in open sin.

I personally don’t drink. Have never drank alcohol and have no desire to ever drink alcohol. But there are a few people in our church that do drink alcohol. We do not allow it at church or church activities, and I have gone to dinner with some of these people and they have never ordered alcohol in front of me, but if they did, I wouldn’t separate over them. Because it isn’t sin. I think there are a lot of cautions around it, and I would never recommend it to anyone, but they are not committing sin, until they are committing sin. So I won’t separate over them. The second they are seen abusing it, they will face church discipline, even though we as a church don’t forbid it.

You accuse me of poor argumentation…well, unlike some, I have a full time job, a family with 4 kids, and a ministry. I can’t write a 8 paragraph defense with 17 scripture references with every post I make. Sorry to disappoint!

I was going to ignore this thread since it is obvious that most posters have missed the point of Andy N.’s sermon. But, let me ask, did you actually LISTEN to his sermon?