BJU Releases Music Philosophy

(and I would fall in both camps…) you have to appreciate their desire to be clear in their convictions. There is still much room for discussion, but they have taken a stand graciously.

BJ music policy quote-

“How do we define rock music?

When compared with the characteristics of other musical genres (e.g., folk music, patriotic music, classical concert music and traditional sacred music), the rock genre is distinguished by the combination of some or all of the following characteristics—sensual singing styles, dominating beat, heavy percussion, overwhelming volume and an overall atmosphere that counteracts self‐control, especially when coupled in performance with elements such as a defiant demeanor, immodest attire, sexually suggestive dancing or crude gestures. Attempts to couple worldly vehicles like rock music (and other pop styles) with sacred lyrics and settings create a moral tension for the believer and contradict the Christian’s call to a consecrated approach to life (Rom. 12:1–2).”

I have never once experienced one of the above feelings while listening to Casting Crowns , Jeremy Camp , Kutless and many more “rock” groups. Now I’m well aware of these attributes being present in some secular rock music, but to make a blanket statement is just what seems to be driving this endless debate , which is, all rock is ungodly, maybe their not saying this , but I don’t know how else to take it , since every BJU man I’ve ever sat under or read seem to hold such a position, their may be some who are of the BJU stripe that do not ( I’m sure there are) but I’m only speaking of my own experience.

“the rock genre is distinguished by the combination of some or all of the following characteristics—sensual singing styles, dominating beat, heavy percussion, overwhelming volume”

I fail to see any of these particular qualities as anti scriptural in and of themselves. And as for ” sensual singing styles”are we talking the lyrics or the tone in which the lyrics are sung, I once attended a Mark Herbster conf. on music and he played a song from a lady associated with sovereign grace , and stated that she was singing sensually, I almost burst out laughing, as this was a purely subjective statement.

Thats my take anyway.

I should also state I appreciated and agreed with a big portion of their policy , I’m also not saying that the blanket statements made about the rock genre is what’s driving this bigger debate on music in worship. It’s just a small part of the debate as a whole.

I happen to agree with the stand that BJU has taken on the issue of music. To be honest, though, I did not go to school there so whether I agree or not really isn’t that big of an issue with me. However, I am very appreciative of a ministry being willing to articulate where they stand. Whether I agree or not with their music direction, my biggest disappointment with how NIU has handled their music issues recently is in how the changes were communicated poorly.

What is “set to excellent music”?

What is “set to excellent music”?

Whatever someone at BJU says is? I’m not sure, really.

Seriously, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with this music policy, although I thought that the ending paragraph about ‘rock music’ felt tacked on to the end as a kind of cover-all. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go listen to some Enfield or SGM.

Think about it.

SGM on their own website says they believe that all NT gifts are operating today. That is charismatic theology. While some SGM music (I say some because I haven’t heard all of their songs…) is pleasant to listen to, as an Independent Baptist I would not sing it or use it in my church. And, since I don’t want to confuse people by listening to one type of music at home and using another in the church, I have to separate from the music put out by SGM.

Just my personal opinion - but someone should be assigned the task of turning out all the lights when BJU closes.

This line in the sand will most likely be the death-blow to BJU. Outside the very limited sphere of BJU (and similar) churches, folks have moved along from this issue.

The Christian school not 500 yards from my office no longer sends students to BJU. Not that they don’t want to - two generations of their administration are BJU grads, but the students don’t want to go. Ask yourself, Why?

[Mark_Smith]

SGM on their own website says they believe that all NT gifts are operating today. That is charismatic theology. While some SGM music (I say some because I haven’t heard all of their songs…) is pleasant to listen to, as an Independent Baptist I would not sing it or use it in my church. And, since I don’t want to confuse people by listening to one type of music at home and using another in the church, I have to separate from the music put out by SGM.

Mark, I sure as shooting hope you don’t listen to any Southern Gospel music then or any of the Wesley hymns either, for that matter.

As we say here in the Carolinas, you gotta’ learn to eat the meat and spit out the bones.

[Mark_Smith] SGM on their own website says they believe that all NT gifts are operating today. That is charismatic theology. While some SGM music (I say some because I haven’t heard all of their songs…) is pleasant to listen to, as an Independent Baptist I would not sing it or use it in my church. And, since I don’t want to confuse people by listening to one type of music at home and using another in the church, I have to separate from the music put out by SGM.

Mark -

I agree with you on some of this. Here’s my follow up question for you though - what happens when SGM songs start showing up in your hymnals? Or why not just use the songs you can use anyway?

You wouldn’t apply this criteria to the hymns in your existing hymnal now. So what is the difference?

Why did BJU put out a music philosophy statement? I thought their philosophy of music was pretty clear before this statement.

[Pastor Joe Roof]

Why did BJU put out a music philosophy statement? I thought their philosophy of music was pretty clear before this statement.

Agreed. Not sure why it is news. Does it really affect anyone that does not go to that school? I hope not…

[Mark_Smith]

SGM on their own website says they believe that all NT gifts are operating today. That is charismatic theology.

[/Quote]

What does the theology of the music publisher have to do with the theology of the songs. The songs should stand on their own. Just like none of us care about the stance of the publisher of the hymnal, or the company who printed the hymnal, or the paper manufacturer of the hymnal. Most of the songs on an SGM album aren’t even written by or performed by an SGM artist. I am not sure we all agree with St. Francis of Assisi’s theology or the theology of the Roman Catholic Church, but it doesn’t stop the vast majority of fundamentalist from singing, “All Creatures of our God and King”.

[Mark_Smith] While some SGM music (I say some because I haven’t heard all of their songs…) is pleasant to listen to, [/Quote]

What is pleasant? This is a totally arbitrary statement and shouldn’t be a qualifier. I personally don’t find Southern Gospel or even some of the songs in our hymnals as pleasant, but that doesn’t cause me to either not sing it or be present during it’s singing.

[Quote=Mark_Smith] as an Independent Baptist I would not sing it or use it in my church. [/Quote]

The type of baptist you are shouldn’t dictate the type of music you would sing or listen to in your church.

[Quote=Mark_Smith] And, since I don’t want to confuse people by listening to one type of music at home and using another in the church, I have to separate from the music put out by SGM.

Have you ever sung, “Mary had a little lamb at home”? or “Itsy bitsy spider?”

This to me is the classic trail that many Christians go down when they try to determine the music they will listen to. 1)Someone connected to the music isn’t right theologically, 2) It doesn’t sound pleasant, 3)What would others think.

[Mark_Smith]

SGM on their own website says they believe that all NT gifts are operating today. That is charismatic theology. While some SGM music (I say some because I haven’t heard all of their songs…) is pleasant to listen to, as an Independent Baptist I would not sing it or use it in my church. And, since I don’t want to confuse people by listening to one type of music at home and using another in the church, I have to separate from the music put out by SGM.

Mark,

If we’re limiting our music in that way, there’s a lot you won’t be able to use. One example: Do you believe that perfection is possible in this life through a second work of grace or experience of “entire sanctification”? There were a lot of hymnwriters whose songs Independent Baptists typically use, including, prominent people like Fanny Crosby, who either held to that or were very comfortable associating with those that did.

You cannot separate the theological views of a person from the songs that they write. Music by its nature either teaches us truth or reinforces truth already known. True, writers from long ago had some theological views that I may not agree with, however, I am not likely to know anything more about Fanny Crosby’s doctrine than the songs that have survived that we still sing because of their solid theological teaching. However, I have two observations:

1. It is not wise to hold on to old hymns that are weak doctrinally simply because they were the hymns we grew up with. Frankly, many of the older hymns were written at a time where every song was set to a specific musical pattern whether it matched the words or not…and where words were often just used as fillers to make the rhythm work. I would give examples but would probably be chastised so I will challenge you to look through your old hymnal and find the songs I am referring to.

2. It is very dangerous to accept a persons theological positions (as written in song) if you disagree with their theological positions as stated in their doctrinal statement. For example, I do not listen to SGM music. Why? Because I disagree with their position on Soteriology and it is incredible how many times that view affects the words used in their songs. I disagree with their overemphasis of the sovereignty of God. It shows up in almost every song they write. If I disagree with them theologically it would be foolish of me to put my blinders on and to say that I can then listen to their music and it be of no effect.

As someone that grew up listening to southern gospel music, I have had to carefully evaluate the direction of that movement and make personal choices for me and my family. Those choices sometimes direct me toward or away from groups or genres based on their doctrine.