Proverbs 31, Victoria's Secret, and Viral Marketing

I have both!

Whatever we think about the direction of society and popular culture, it’s interesting when ‘old fashioned values’ resonate with people enough to cause such a reaction.

Why are they in contrast? I know many Christian women think fat and frumpy is a spiritual gift, but it isn’t. After 5 kids, my wife is still in great shape.

That’s not the point of the article.

Girls talk about losing weight. The guy responds by making a contrast with that and Prov 31. I am pretty sure it was.

[Donn R Arms]

I have both!

Most people don’t have both, and even most who think they do wouldn’t really qualify for the impossibly exacting standards of the professional modeling world. That’s the standard many girls, and women, measure themselves by, and it saddens them to think they don’t measure up, but really should if they took care of themselves regardless of genetics and the natural changes that come with aging. And then they might hear a comment like this..

I know many Christian women think fat and frumpy is a spiritual gift, but it isn’t. After 5 kids, my wife is still in great shape.

and they start to think that the men they know, even godly men, think that the natural middle age spread, or the wider hips after childbirth, or the little bit of a tummy they didn’t have when they were sixteen, means they are fat and frumpy and proud of it.

So I think it’s good to be reminded that “beauty is vain, and charm is deceitful.”

My wife, by the way, at 53 is very lovely. But she doesn’t have the body she had at 23. I don’t either! Somehow I never expected her to.

Well said, Wayne! I am thankful for my wife’s beauty, but all the more for her sweet spirit. I know they are not mutually exclusive, but I would much rather her be in great spiritual shape then great physical shape.

And Wayne missed what I said.

In the video embedded in the article the guy explains that he was referring to values. He was pointing out a contrast in mentality and values (not appearance) between a woman who desires to be like the Prov. 31 woman and one who desires to be like a Victoria’s Secret model.

If Donn’s wife is a Prov. 31 woman, I’d sure like to meet her. Her value is “far above rubies.”

[James K]

And Wayne missed what I said.

Seems I did miss it. Want to try again, brother?

Sexiness is not defined by just anyone. God puts a high price on the husband wife relationship. Victoria secret gets it only partially correct. What they get right isn’t the size of the woman. It is that a woman would want to be desired by her man. I am not addressing what cultural smut exists here. A wife should want to be for her husband. Those who are indifferent to that are in sin. I know men who like a bigger sized woman. Good for them.

[James K]

Sexiness is not defined by just anyone. God puts a high price on the husband wife relationship. Victoria secret gets it only partially correct. What they get right isn’t the size of the woman. It is that a woman would want to be desired by her man. I am not addressing what cultural smut exists here. A wife should want to be for her husband. Those who are indifferent to that are in sin. I know men who like a bigger sized woman. Good for them.

Not sure this is better. I should probably let the ladies respond. But it does make me wonder if a man fell in love with and married a thin girl for her character, but he is attracted to large women, should she gorge herself to please him, and would she be in sin if she did not?

I don’t want to call you out, but it feels like a bit of backtracking. You said “I know many Christian women think fat and frumpy is a spiritual gift, but it isn’t.” I’m sure this was a bit tongue in cheek (I hope!) but I think it comes across as insensitive and shortsighted at best. I know plenty of ladies who are on the heavy side, but none of them are “okay” with it, never mind embrace it (that I know of…). Most of them would love to be the perfect shape for their husband but they struggle to accomplish that goal. Just like some men struggle with meeting the emotional needs of their wife, or struggle to be gracious in their speech. I agree that a woman should want to be desired by her man (as well as a man by his woman) and should make a real effort to accomplish that goal. If that is the point you were trying to make originally, it was lost on me. Your statement that “After 5 kids, my wife is still in great shape.” delivers an entirely different message.

[James K]

Sexiness is not defined by just anyone. God puts a high price on the husband wife relationship. Victoria secret gets it only partially correct. What they get right isn’t the size of the woman. It is that a woman would want to be desired by her man. I am not addressing what cultural smut exists here. A wife should want to be for her husband. Those who are indifferent to that are in sin. I know men who like a bigger sized woman. Good for them.

James,

I’m pretty sure that the guys behind this effort would be more than pleased to find a proverbs 31 woman in a Victoria’s Secret model’s body. They’re emphatically not saying that the body of an attractive woman is bad. What they are fighting against is improper emphasis, and I don’t think they’re throwing out the baby with the bathwater, because they’re not advocating ugliness as the solution. They’re advocating virtue.

Incidentally another office of my company is bidding to do advertising for just this brand. Pray we lose.

I know many Christian women think fat and frumpy is a spiritual gift, but it isn’t.

I think it is important to recognize that this is a man making the statement to women who obviously didn’t think “fat and frumpy is a spiritual gift.” He was reacting to their issues of personal inadequacy and drive to conform to the appearance standard set by the models, and reminding them that the primary concern is character more than ones ability to generate sexual provocativeness in mass public displays. We focus on the ideal of attractiveness set by a VS model, and even in this thread argue for both- but I am not sure one could have the character required to be both a VS model and a Proverbs 31 woman- who is described, after all, as being “virtuous”- not a term I would generally think of to describe women who parade around in their underwear for a living.