John Piper to move to Knoxville area while he works on his writing

What I will say is that I have been grateful for John’s impact both within evangelical and fundamentalist individuals and ministries. I pray for God’s rich grace on our brother’s new context of ministry. I pray that all of us here who are faithfully serving within the context of local church ministry will be as faithful as John has been over the decades.

Straight Ahead and Blessed New Year!

jt

ps - Hey friends, let’s give the mod’s time to deal with certain individuals. I was a Mod sometime ago here at SI. It’s a daunting task. Just zip them a note and know that they will work behind the scene to make sure all is where it needs to be. If you read something that seems “not right” please assume the best from the leadership here at SI - they are sharp people taking one step at a time. Also….let’s try to use restraint when interacting with someone who has stepped out of bounds. Usually a private message is a good starting place. Then I’d go to the mod’s. I would only call a brother or sister out in public if you’ve already done step one and two……but that’s just me and I haven’t always lived by that rule……but I’m trying to live by that rule.

Keep Smiling!

Huw, you opine:

I know my trust is true and I know this for certain;

A rank Arminian could have said the same thing.

So you know you are one of the elect because you know it? And you know it because your life is enjoyable and you can quote a hymn written by someone who didn’t share your views?

Listen. Whether you care about what I think about your opinion of your elect status is wholly as beside the point as your opinion about John Piper’s or anyone else’s salvation. You were asked an important theological question and you have dodged it with a tautology.

You say further,

I know the work was begun and I trust He is able to complete that work.

What if He has no intention of completing the work because you are not elect?

I have asked you twice how you know your “trust” is the real thing which leads to salvation. I might add here that the “trust” is either self-generated - in which case you are lost (according to you that is), and self-deceived; or, the “trust” comes from God (which you would agree with I think), in which case you still have to answer whether it is enduring faith or the false faith which Calvin and the Puritans often taught about. Your feelings decide absolutely nothing! Knowledge does not equate to how we feel about a thing. Truth is not decided by what comes over us when we are washing the dishes. So again, how do you know you are one of the elect for whom Christ died?

[Huw]

I know who FRED is, but you mentioned someone called Chuck. Try reading what you posted and then you might understand what I posted.

”because I find it incomprehensible that you could exalt Chuck Phelps” your words post 3.

PS This topic is not on Phelps so lets drop it here.

If I gave the impression of supporting the man then I apologize. What I meant was some of the things he says or teaches cannot be denied or dismissed.

As I said this thread is not about Fred Phelps so why do you persist?

You blog as Dr Reluctant and in view of your refusal to believe me I think the Eternal has given you the correct tag.

I wish you well and look forward to meeting you in eternity.

Huw,

With you everything is opinion!

Here’s another opinion.

If as you say that I am deluded and have no grace, nor trust nor life eternal. I can say with a sincere heart that I don’t deserve forgiveness. That I have no right to ask for it and if it was stripped from me and given to another it would be my just punishment. I would suffer no disappointment, because I don’t deserve it.

Blessings, H.

Huw,

Stop putting words into my mouth. Did I say you were deluded or had no grace? I said nothing of the sort! You need to try to keep your opinions and inferences out of theological discourse. Some folks promote their opinions to the status of Divine disclosure. What matters is that our beliefs cohere with God’s words; that we have a biblical reason for what we espouse. You think Piper is lost. He believes salvation is solely by God’s grace. So did Arminius. So do you. Why are they lost (I presume Arminius is a lost cause?) and you are saved?

I have followed this bizarre discussion and honestly tried to understand what you’re saying. I am at a loss. I doubt there is any Christian in the world who agrees in every possible respect with somebody else’s theology. Regardless, there is pretty general agreement about which theological viewpoints belong under the umbrella of “orthodoxy.” Both Arminianism and Reformed theology are orthodox. I see no warrant for claiming Piper is not saved. I see even less warrant for claiming Piper is an Arminian (Post #4). He is very definitely a Calvinist!

To return to the topic at hand - I have not read one of Piper’s works yet. He is certainly a very polarizing figure (as this weird thread has demonstrated!) but he is a Godly man who has used his talents and abilities for the Lord for quite a while. I wish him the best as he slows down to focus on writing.

By questioning my salvation you in fact deny that I have grace and am deluded in my giving the reason for the hope I have.

I have yet to read a single scriptural word in your Divine discourse.

My trust is in line with the revelation given in the will of The Eternal Father and I have direct access to the benefits promised under the terms of His will.

I know Piper is lost and appears as an angel of light. If you type ‘Piper heresy’ into any search engine you’ll discover there are many who have the same opinion. They did not have an influence on what I know.

He does not believe salvation is by grace alone. He believes there are ”conditions” that must be met.

In fact your statement that salvation is by grace alone is ridiculous and insufficient. It is BY grace THROUGH trust, by grace, in and of itself, does not apply salvation. And while we are on the subject it’s not our trust and is not found in us. It is the trust of Messiah as exercised on the stake and used on our behalf before being applied to us directly. Once this has occurred and we are justified in the court of heaven the Holy Spirit applies or supplies trust to us.

When I awoke this morning my first thought as often is, ’ Thou art with me’. In answer to your question yesterday as to how I know I’m saved, I hate sin and love justness which is the direct opposite to how I was. If a man hates sin he is in direct opposition to Satan and that is scriptural proof.

A lot of men love the doctrines of Calvin, but their carnal hearts and minds cannot accept the fact that all that comes to pass was predetermined. That man is a worm. And this is what riles the carnal thinking, that not only did the Eternal and Almighty predetermine and elect according to grace, He also predetermined a people unto damnation according to justice and vengeful wrath and that the members of a mans household could well be in the number of the latter.

There was a guy on the BBC website who is a militant atheist. He used to be a preaching, evangelizing, tract giving, Bible bashing, enthusiastic Calvinist. The problem occurred for him was the fact his wife was not producing the same enthusiasm and so he walked away from his profession. He now has a website for people who have walked away from Christianity. He was able to profess the doctrines of sovereign grace, but unable to submit to them and proclaim, Just art thou, ”O Yah Veh and straight are thy judgments”. There comes an evil day when what a man has built is tested and believe you me I have had my evil day.

Paul, I know that some people think that salvation comes about by evolution over a long period of time, but scripture teaches of a new creation. Just as we trust the first creation was immediate, we also understand that the new creation is immediate. So can you please tell me on what day you were brought from darkness into light, when you passed from death to life. The day that all things became new and everything before your natural eyes was different. That moment when trust first sprang up in your will and you began a conversation with the Eternal Almighty. Where were you when this happened?

I have followed this bizarre discussion and honestly tried to understand what you’re saying. I am at a loss.

The scriptures teach us that, ‘the soulical human receiveth not those of the Spirit of Elohim: for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually judged”. Do you understand this?

PS please don’t be offended by my question Tyler.

‘’There is a real condition that has to be met for justification - namely faith in Jesus Christ’’. (Pipers words as posted in post 2.)

He has failed to understand that the trust applied for our justification is the trust ‘’of’’ Messiah. This trust, in the Father, was exercised and seen at Calvary. Selah
This same trust is brought to the bench of justice in the court of heaven and provides proof that the sinner has been justified by the death, blood and resurrection of the Messiah. The proof is accepted, the sinner is justified and the sinner receives the benefits accorded to him in the will and testament of the testator. Selah

Once trust is supplied to the sinner. Confession in the mouth and trust in the heart become a reality that can never be denied. Romans 10:9 is not a condition for salvation it is the effect of justification and in exercise of trust gives us the promise.

”Trust in” and ”trust of” are obviously different and are well worth a study. For instance is ‘’trust in’’ directional or positional in the sense I am in Messiah and therefore I trust as being in Him as he is in me.
Trust of is possessive and has an effect as to whom the trust belongs to and what praise He deserves in using that trust for our justification and what glory there is for Him in supplying that trust to a wretch like me.

Anyone using an NIV will have difficulty in checking what I have said is according to scripture. I wondered why you people didn’t recognize what I was saying. The reference for ‘trust in/of’’ ( or faith of/in) can be found in Galatians 2:16 KJV please compare with NIV.

There should be nothing in what I have said that gives a glimmer of glory to man.

‘’And there are real conditions that have to be met for damnation, namely, hardness and unbelief. (First line of the statement of Piper in post 2.)’’

This is as disgusting a line of carnal reasoning I have ever read. In it Piper denies the sovereignty of the Almighty in reprobation. The effects of reprobation are a hard heart and lack of trust, but those are the effects of reprobation, not the cause as Piper says.

The reprobate are ‘’atheist’’ which means they are ‘without Theos’’ without God or without Elohim.
Being ‘without’ they have the same hard hearts they were born with ( Ezekiel) and lack trust because trust is the inheritance of the just by which we live ( Habuk, Rmns, Heb)

”Atheist” is used in scripture once and by Paul. You’ll find it in Ephesians.

[Huw] Once trust is supplied to the sinner.

Nobody is born with trust. Therefore it is necessary to receive it or be supplied with trust. That is the office of the Holy Spirit that is why it is written; ”through trust; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” A gift is both supplied ( by the Almighty) and received ( by the recipient). I would strongly suggest that you do a study on ”gift” especially as numbered by Strong’s as 5486. The word translated as gift is better transliterated and as ‘charisma’ which means spiritual enduement.

The Holy Spirit taking up residence in the justified sinner becomes our supplier of power, the supplier of all our needs, the sanctifier of our hearts.

Chip, where you would use the word faith, I use trust.

edit: added justified to sinner.