The First Baptist Church of Hammond has dismissed Jack Schaap as its pastor in the wake of a Lake County police investigation.

So whom precisely are you accusing of “gloating”? Please name names. Because I don’t see it here at all.

[C. D. Cauthorne Jr.]

Pastor Wes,

Thank you for exactly expressing my thoughts concerning the initial tone of this thread. We should never seem to gloat when a professor of Christ falls into sin. The injury done to the name of Christ, especially in your area, should make us weep.

It seems that there is a difference of opinion on whether Jack Schaap was a Christian who fell into sin, a professor of Christ who fell into sin, or a false teacher who has been exposed.

‘Falling’ into sin isn’t the term I would use. “Scuba diving” seems more accurate.

[C. D. Cauthorne Jr.]

Pastor Wes,

Thank you for exactly expressing my thoughts concerning the initial tone of this thread. We should never seem to gloat when a professor of Christ falls into sin. The injury done to the name of Christ, especially in your area, should make us weep.

After reviewing my initial post, I want to clarify that I am certainly not making any accusations (outright or implied).

The purpose of my original post was to bring to everyone’s attention that there are many people who ARE true believers/professors of Christ/etc. that are left in the wake of this man’s sinful actions. I do feel like the first couple of posts were not particularly steering the conversation in a Christ-like direction. My goal was to inject some thoughtful words into the conversation, which might cause some to realize that attitudes of compassionate prayer and a sense of soberness should also be considered as we respond to this event.

While I do agree with much of the analysis that has been posted so far regarding the reasons why FBCH/HAC are particularly susceptible to these sorts of scandals, I did not feel the “I told you so” type of comments were particularly helpful.

C.D., I personally would not make the accusation that people were “gloating”. To make that claim, I would have to know the intent behind their comments. The facts are that much of what FBCH/HAC espouses are patently non-Christ-like. I believe that their focus on externals, their promotion of a man-centered salvation model, and their insistence on many non-essentials places them into the realm of being modern-day Pharisees.

I also realize that this type of behavior can illicit a very strong response from people, especially those who have been raised in “fundamental” circles who see the error of many of the hyper-fundamental ideals (an environment in which I was raised). If I wasn’t living in this very area of Indiana, and if I didn’t have an intimate knowledge of what this news is doing to my community (including the police officers to whom I minister), I might have responded in a similar manner. The truth is that the type of ministry that FBCH/HAC has built leads to these very kinds of problems. However, because I AM part of this community, and because I DO see the great damage that this news has caused/is causing to people within my congregation, those who are part of FBCH, and the community at large, I felt it was necessary to help people see the hurt that is beyond a purely analytical critique of FBCH/HAC’s ministry philosophy (or lack thereof).

I agree entirely with Jim’s response, “The first Jack’s ministry was man-centered …. as was the 2nd’s”. I want to also thank Jim for sharing some things that I didn’t know…giving a horse of doctorate degree…you gotta be kidding!!

I do, however, take exception to Shaynus’ reply. Shaynus, you should re-read my post carefully…I never advocated praying for Schaap….I advocated for praying for his wife, the church that he had left in the wake of his sinful actions, and the victim and her family. I might add that while I did not necessarily advocate that we should pray for Jack Schaap, I do believe there is Biblical president in Matthew 5:43-48 for praying for Jack Schaap.

Angela, I particularly appreciated your post, especially your second paragraph.

Would all of you please continue to lift our community up to the Lord in prayer, especially praying the Christ-centered, biblical churches that are present in the Hammond and greater-Hammond area. Also, please pray that I may speak with wisdom from the Lord as I address the questions that I have received/will receive from my congregation, the police officers I serve, and others who ask me in the coming days/weeks. Thanks.

I do, however, take exception to Shaynus’ reply. Shaynus, you should re-read my post carefully…I never advocated praying for Schaap….I advocated for praying for his wife, the church that he had left in the wake of his sinful actions, and the victim and her family. I might add that while I did not necessarily advocate that we should pray for Jack Schaap, I do believe there is Biblical president in Matthew 5:43-48 for praying for Jack Schaap.

Duly noted. I wasn’t necessarily replying directly to your statement, but to the tone of the response from First Baptist Hammond, which had been “let’s pray for Brother Schaap.” I simply advocate deleting “brother” and make it clear with people that we’re not at all implying brotherhood. False teaching has been rampant in that church, and deacons (acting as elders) had substantially and consistently allowed heretical and/or aberrant doctrine to be taught by Schaap. The tone is that “these deacons are men of God” in a very difficult situation. Actually they are complicit.

I agree with your exception to my original comment, and it wasn’t meant to accuse you of anything. Let me know if this clarifies things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyiH8yCmDMI&feature=player_embedded#!

Here’s the whole meeting in which Schaap was dismissed. In listening to chunks of it, I thought a mixture of “oh great they’re doing what’s right” with “shoot, they’ve fallen into the same hero worship trap (read: deacons) as before.”

[Shaynus]

I agree with your exception to my original comment, and it wasn’t meant to accuse you of anything. Let me know if this clarifies things.

Clarification made and received. Thanks for taking the time to do so.

I pray for Jack Schaap as a man who needs to repent of many sins. I pray for his wife who must feel a profound sense of loss and betrayal. I pray for the people of a church who have been led astray by false teaching and man-worship. Finally, I pray for a community that has another “reason” to blaspheme the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVkgLc-y15Y

17 min long

Disappointed in Gibbs. Just finished watching the video. Gibbs encourages the congregation to pray for the Schaap family, and Dr Schaap … but no mention praying for the minor victim.