Should Churches Monitor Members' Giving?

I would like to see churches spell out their policy on this.

• Obviously someone(s) have to know. At the very least the Financial Secretary knows (makes sense to me)
• Counters have some sense because they see the checks. But I doubt they keep any kind of record that goes beyond the batch count (I suppose if someone drops a check in for $ 5000 … a counter will make a mental note of it.)
• If the Pastor or Pastoral staff review giving records (and it may make sense for them to do this), that fact should be spelled out so donors are aware

I know of a very fine and Biblical church where the pastor was fully aware of people’s giving. It was their conviction that a person’s financial stewardship was a good indicator of their spiritual vitality. If a person’s giving was anemic, this indicated either a financial or a spiritual problem. In either case, the pastor felt that he should have that information so that he could more effectively minister to his families.

During the Cold War era, I knew of East German pastors who wanted this information for the same reason. If a family was suffering financially, the church wanted to step up and help. If a family was becoming careless, the pastor needed to challenge them.

In my 37 years of ministry, I have chosen not to know the details of people’s giving. I am sure that a family’s giving is one measure of their spiritual vitality, and I preach on faithful stewardship, but have chosen not to know. In our present ministry, there are probably some people who meet the pollster’s evaluation that evangelicals give about 2 %, but it is my suspicion that most of our people are very faithful.

I have challenged our people with this statement : “If your income next year was 10 times your giving this past year, would you get a raise or would you lose your house and be homeless ?”

I agree with Jim that, if a church were to adopt the policy that the pastor know the giving that this must be a policy that is well thought out, well communicated, and well documented.

How would anyone know if someone giving was ‘anemic’? You’d have to know the person’s income, wouldn’t you?

[Dick Dayton]

I know of a very fine and Biblical church where the pastor was fully aware of people’s giving. It was their conviction that a person’s financial stewardship was a good indicator of their spiritual vitality. If a person’s giving was anemic, this indicated either a financial or a spiritual problem. In either case, the pastor felt that he should have that information so that he could more effectively minister to his families.

We are blessed at our church with a group of elders that do not care and never have asked about offering reports and records.

Our pastor always makes the point that Christians should give, but makes it clear that he doesn’t know and doesn’t want to know how much people give.

In our church, we make it a point to keep it to as few people as possible. There are at most 3 or 4 people (all on the finance committee) who could know if they wanted to. I have no desire to know, either. That’s between that person and the Lord.

Why is money the one area of a church member’s life that is outside of accountability? Could this be yet another indication of the pedestal (aka “idolatry”) of money in our culture? If I had a deacon or elder or Bible study leader or youth worker or many other positions who never came to church, who had a drinking problem, who screamed at their wife and kids or abused them physically, who had a gossipping problem, who refused to pray or evangelize ever or many other issues that are matters of spiritual obedience, etc… should I also “turn a blind eye to it” and refuse to know what they are doing? Why is money so special?

If someone wants to say, “Well, the pastor might show favoritism?” I would ask several questions? What else would there be in my character or his character wherein we would immediately assume that if he were privy to that information he would misuse it? If someone tells him the pastor he’s addicted to porn during counseling, maybe the pastor will blackmail him? I guess no one should get private counsel from a pastor. Is the pastor really so ignorant that he can’t tell who the wealthy people are simply because of the car they drive or where they live or what they do for a living. Why wouldn’t he “prefer” these people also. And what “favoritism” might he bestow on the rich person? Preferred seating? A three-free-sins-a-week coupon? Maybe a regular “audience” with the pastor? (I realize I’m being fairly sarcastic, but I prefer to think of it as hyperbole.)

Would any pastor really want to take counsel from deacons or elders who did not give to the church? What about staff pastors who don’t give? Is that acceptable? If that’s between “them and the Lord” then shouldn’t the number of hours they work or their internet viewing habits or church attendance also be part of that? What if a deacon ONLY attends church on nights when there is a deacons meeting? Is that between them and the Lord? What kind of financial credibility would people have to offer if they never gave to the church?

When someone goes out of their way to be a blessing at church through giving a lot of time or opening up their home or serving in a difficult capacity, I have frequently expressed appreciation by way of a card or a phone call or a note or even a small gift. So are we saying if someone gives generously and liberally that we should NOT express any appreciation for their gifts that have blessed the Body?

Again….I guess my point or question is, “Why is it that we treat money/giving as if it were some special big deal worthy of unusual care and treatment and deference”? Could it be that we’ve adopted the World’s love of/respect for/fear of money. Or then again, we could just see it as a gift — like that of giving time or sharing a talent. After all….in heaven, all our gold will be good for is…..pavement. :-D

FTR….I never requested or received a regular report on what folks gave in any of the churches I’ve served, but neither have I kept myself blind to it. I always asked if someone gave before we affirmed their leadership. I would know when someone did something generous and I’d express my appreciation to them. I also felt quite free to approach wealthy individuals when I knew of a need and would mention it to them. Sometimes they helped with it and sometimes they didn’t. THEN it was between them and God. I’ve been questioned about a lot of things over my 30 years of ministry. Showing favoritism over money wasn’t one of them. It was just a non-issue. Anyone who wants to give anonymously can always pitch cash in the offering plate.

Oh…one last thing. My experience has confirmed that people who regularly and faithfully gave never had a problem with me knowing. Others? Yep…I heard from them.

Would we think a church was blessed to have a group of elders that do not care and never ask about those who are not providing for their families (or whatever other command of scripture you want to put in here).

What would we think of a pastor who makes the point that Christians shouldn’t fornicate (or whatever other command of scripture you want to put in here), but makes it clear that he doesn’t know who might be fornicating and he doesn’t want to know?

The core question is whether or not the Bible instructs NT believers to be giving to the local church. If it does, then you work out the rest of the details; if it doesn’t, then the pastor has no business snooping into private lives.

Thanks Dan. You posted while I was posting but expressed my thoughts exactly.

Dick makes some very good points. Though I have never known what individuals give, I could find out if necessary. It is interesting to me that the knee-jerk reaction is “none of your business.” Yet notice that there are no biblical perspectives being offered (are there?).

To Susan’s question, income isn’t that hard to figure out, at least generally speaking. If you know someone’s occupation, and have been to their house, and know general information about them, it is fairly easy to know what income bracket they are in. In my church, I have never asked, but I could probably come within $10,000 of anyone by guessing. Where did we come up with the idea that income is private? I am not saying that’s bad, but it came from somewhere.

To Brandon’s point, I am not sure that it is a “blessing” to have elders who don’t care and have never looked at offering reports and records. If giving is a biblical command (and I doubt anyone disputes that), then it doesn’t seem wise to completely put our heads in the sand about it. How do those elders know whether or not their fellow elders are engaged in some form of idolatry that involves money? Or whether deacons are happy to have position and power without being willing to commit financially to the work of the gospel?

Where giving information would be useful (and really the only time I would use it), is in the case of a man nominated to be a pastor or deacon. In such a case, a thorough examination of a man’s life and qualifications for ministry should include financial considerations (not a lover of money, self-controlled and thus not in debt, etc.). Furthermore, it would be important to know that a man supports the work of the church financially. I think it would be irresponsible to have an elder or deacon who was able to give but did not. A man who drives a brand new car and lives in a nice house but gave only $500 to the church in the previous year is unqualified. And the only way you will know that is if you ask.

Do you need to make it public? Isn’t it already public? Do people really write checks with their names on them and think that no one will know that it was their check? Do people use envelopes with a number assigned to their name and think no one will know? Do they expect to get a tax receipt given to them with no name on them? No. I think Jim is wrong on that. The assumption is that when you give a check or an envelope someone is going to know. That’s not rocket science or a mystery. No one gets their year end tax receipt and says, “I had no idea anyone knew what I was giving.”

Now, if the elders are going to look into it for the purpose of considering a man for elder or deacon, then it would likely be wise to tell them in the initial interview that part of the consideration is financial management, debt, credit, giving, etc. It wouldn’t be unwise to run a credit check on a person as well. Many churches does this when considering a pastor (and all should do it). It only makes sense.

I wonder if part of the issue here is that we have bought into an individualistic scheme of Christianity where certain things in our personal lives are ruled as none of anyone else’s business. I see no biblical merit for this, but it should be at least questioned.

Good comments both of you

I agree that financial stewardship is a part (and probably a big part) of the Christian life. So I would not be offended if my Pastor asked me about my giving.

My own view is that the church’s policy should be documented and public (my first post)

Now about the giving records and the problem of knowing - what does the record tell and what doesn’t it?!

• It doesn’t tell the giver’s salary so doing the 10% calculation really doesn’t do anything (I think Susan said this earlier). So suppose the aggregate annual gift is $ 5,000. Well that’s great if the guy is making $ 50K. But you just don’t know (unless we really want to get personal and ask members to submit W-2’s, 1099’s … like the IRS!)
• It doesn’t tell the whole giving story. Aside from in-the-place, non-enveloped cash donations, it does not tell the whole story of giving … suppose the giver gives $ 2 or 3K a year directly to a Bible college or to missionaries. Oh you might say that the Lord’s tithe belongs in the storehouse (the local church) but not everyone has that position.
• Even the tithing position is not universally accepted. Some believe in grace giving that may be more or less than 10%. Consider that few churches actually have tithing spelled out in their doctrinal statements or church covenant.

Analogy alert: I commonly give blood every 6 or 8 weeks. Aside from the intrusive questions (I understand the need for them … eg … have you had sex with a man since 1974!) a cursory physical of sorts is administered:

• Prick of the finger … iron count
• Blood pressure and pulse

That tells a story but it doesn’t tell the whole story

Larry said:

Do they expect to get a tax receipt given to them with no name on them? No. I think Jim is wrong on that. The assumption is that when you give a check or an envelope someone is going to know. That’s not rocket science or a mystery. No one gets their year end tax receipt and says, “I had no idea anyone knew what I was giving.”

I didn’t actually say that. I said someone(s) know. I get that.

I also said: “If the Pastor or Pastoral staff review giving records (and it may make sense for them to do this), that fact should be spelled out so donors are aware”

Totally agree with Jim that all church policies documented and public.

• OK suppose the Pastor looks at the giving records. And he goes down the list and sees that Member Bill only gave $ 3,000 last year.
• He knows that Bill lives in a certain part of town (and by the way most housing information is public anymore … check out zillow.com. In most major markets you can plug in an address (try it on your own!) and see that information). He can see that Bill’s home is valued at $ 300,000 and that he paid $ 190,000 for it 20 years ago.
• He’s been in Bill’s house and knows that the furniture is not shabby and that the kitchen has recently been remodeled.
• Bill drives a late model car and the Pastor can guess the value of it (and perhaps even have a close idea of the purchase price)
• The Pastor knows something about Bill’s career. He’s an engineer for a Fortune 500 company. The Pastor surmises that Bill has to be making close to $ 100,000 a year
• And now the giving record … only $ 3,000!

Now what will said Pastor do with that information?

• Will he personally confront Bill?
• or will he just keep him off the deacon board?

It would seem to me that the right thing to do would be to personally confront Bill.

Now I’ve been a Pastor. I’ve never done that. I wouldn’t even be comfortable sitting down with a member and laying out the facts: “you’re a miser! I know it because I know the value of your home, the value of your car, and I can probably guess within $10,000 your annual salary.”

Are their pastors here who have done this? Feel comfortable doing this? Would want to do this? Is this the tool the pastor uses?

there are people who give cash and don’t put their name on the envelope. So does the pastor demand that everyone document their giving so that it can be tracked?

BTW, I don’t buy the idea that someone can figure out how much someone makes by looking at their house and neighborhood and cars and where they work. Some people do very well with very little because they are very frugal.

Would the church also expect people to tithe on gifts, and whenever they sell something? Should church members turn in an account of the proceeds of their last garage sale?

I’m not saying that faithful giving is not important, but I just can’t imagine what tracking tithes and offerings would look like.

[Susan R]

BTW, I don’t buy the idea that someone can figure out how much someone makes by looking at their house and neighborhood and cars and where they work. Some people do very well with very little because they are very frugal.

Or, what’s more likely

—that all of his toys are financed and he has no room left for giving, even if he wanted to.

(This describes a large percentage of people.)