On the "survivor movement": 'these are folks who have a profoundly unhealthy preoccupation with the alleged wrongs done against them"

[Wayne Wilson]

Survivor blogs are often full of hurting people. They are open forums. Some people on them behave badly. Some have left the faith. Some believe, but can’t set foot in church again. Some have recovered enough to seek out fellowship again. Survivor blogs are safe places for people to know they’re not alone. They often encourage each other and try to understand what happened to them…why they feel shattered by their church experience. The blogs are messy. There is wisdom to be found and foolishness. But it’s where people turn when the truly wounded are treated as whiners and weaklings by those who should be ministering grace to them.

Unfortunately, in my experience with “survivor blogs,” I’ve seen a lot of commiserating but very little biblical counsel given. A lot of people may feel “safe” to share their experiences, but rarely are they challenged to move beyond their experiences and feelings and to apply the truth of the gospel to their situation. Rick Thomas may say that “in time” this is what happens, but how often do you see this taking place in these “survivor blogs”? Rarely.

Therefore, in the main, “survivor blogs” (at least the one’s I know about) tend to enable and reinforce victimization through therapeutic labeling, coping mechanisms, and catharsis rather than to bring the Scriptures and the gospel to bear on the situation.

People who have been wounded by poor / unbiblical church leadership shouldn’t be dismissed; rather, they should be ministered to with the love, truth, and hope of the gospel. Again, Rick Thomas may say, “… after they have been heard, helped, and are on the road to being healed, you can begin to address their sinful reactions,” but someone cannot be truly helped and healed apart from the gospel and its implications for both the offender and the offended.

T Howard commented:

… . A lot of people may feel “safe” to share their experiences, but rarely are they challenged to move beyond their experiences and feelings and to apply the truth of the gospel to their situation. Rick Thomas may say that “in time” this is what happens, but how often do you see this taking place in these “survivor blogs”? Rarely.

How do you know this to be true? Do you stay at a survivor blog long enough to see the same people months/years on end? Perhaps people stay long enough to get their stories told/validated and then move on.

Throughout the Psalms, David cries out to God in praise, joy, sadness, and in anger. So many emotions are expressed. We tend to have difficulty with people expressing negative emotions. A mother having a baby has intensely emotional feelings and if you get a group of moms together, the topic frequently goes to sharing birth stories - the good ones and the bad. The same thing happens with any other deeply intense emotional time. I was with a group of people this weekend who shared with me their cult experience. They’ve been out over a decade and yet the emotions expressed were raw. There was sadness because of the pain that they went through, but also happiness because of what God had brought them through. This is beautiful. God made emotions. They are not bad. The challenging part is getting people to a point where they can learn to trust again - trust pastors, trust people in churches, and trust God. They aren’t going to trust if their story is not believed and validated. It takes time - sometimes years.

God sets a precedent in His word about how shepherds are to tend hurt/lost sheep - by going after the one lost sheep. This beautifully illustrates how he loves and tenderly and cares for the wounded sheep.

I fear that in some people’s quest to prove that most cases of abuse are really not abuse cases, but sin, they may be unintentionally re-victimizing legitimate abuse. Wouldn’t it be more loving to listen to the stories (1 Cor 13:7 “bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things”), trusting that the person is telling you the truth, showing love and compassion. Then, later if it was discovered that the person was probably in sin and perhaps there wasn’t real abuse, there would be ground on which to stand and an established relationship to gently confront the person. We must be careful to not not further inflict additional pain on God’s battered sheep and cause them to stumble. (Luke 17: 1-2 )

When I was an 11 yr. old boy we had an autocratic pastor who was ill-tempered and was a philanderer. I was unfairly treated and even disciplined in the Christian school because the pastor was at odds with my father because he was a deacon who called the pastor out on his activities. My sister, who was at a university was “shunned” by members of her society who went to this pastor’s commissioning church. Fortunately, most of the members thought the same and the pastor was told to leave. His loyal minority left the church never speaking to us again (shunning) and still after 30 years still do not speak to us. If the majority of the church wanted him to stay, we would have just left and attended another church.

Were me and my sister treated unfairly? Yes. Were we abused? No. That would cheapen the term. I don’t want to claim victimhood on the same level as someone who was sexually, physically or mentally abused. Victimization, too many times, is a crutch by many to excuse nonspiritual behaviour. We need to show love for people, yes, but we should not encourage them to wallow in their sinful vindictiveness or excuse their lack of spiritual growth on circumstances. Does God say to get vengeance? No, he tells us to give them up and move on. It’s a cancer to our soul if we do not.

We definitely live in a “victim” culture where nearly everyone seemingly plays the role of victim in order to endear themselves to the empathy of others. The sad truth is that there are real victims which get lost in the confusion. It is similar to over-playing the “race” card. When everything is deemed racism, true racism gets ignored. I just read a website yesterday of so-called victims from a Christian college. All of these victims had one thing in common—they were all practicing homosexuals. Their true agenda is to change the policy of the Christian institution in accepting same-sex marriage and other co-habiting relationships outside of traditional, biblically defined marriage. “Abuse” is a buzz word today and should only be used when clearly appropriate.

There’s a really hard balance to strive for in this. At one end you have a need to empower real victims so that leaders are accountable and this kind of conduct can be reduced. At the other end you have a need to avoid empowering false victims who are simply complainers. At the same time, you have real victims are now victimizing themselves on top of what was done to them—victimizing themselves by obsessing indefinitely over a past they cannot change after they’ve already done everything they can and should to fight the evil.

To me it seems unlikely that outsiders are usually going to be in a good position to know whether a case they’re encountering is at one end of the spectrum or the other or somewhere in between.

If we really can’t usually tell, what should we do? It calls for a whole lot of sensitivity.

But we’re doing the self-victimizers a disservice if we don’t challenge them also to embrace the freedom they have in Christ and move forward to better days. (To me, that group is the most tragic. Satan has made victims of them twice over… and they get up every morning and live out victimization every day until they get free.)

I’m not saying everybody who runs a “survivors” group is victimizing herself/himself. Not by a long shot. This is the sensitivity I’m talking about. We don’t really know when they’ve done everything they should as individuals to help make the abuse less tolerated and less abundant. (I do think some of them don’t understand that human nature being what it is, we will never completely stop sinners from sinning in these ways… so for some, self-victimiztion occurs in that they’ve set a goal they will never achieve—not if they had ten life times to devote to it!)

[Julie Anne]

How do you know this to be true? Do you stay at a survivor blog long enough to see the same people months/years on end? Perhaps people stay long enough to get their stories told/validated and then move on.

I’ve read several survivor blogs and participated at one for over 12 years. In the twelve years that I was there, it was my experience that many of the people who posted there were more interested in catharsis and blame-shifting than they were in learning how the gospel speaks to their situation. In fact, when someone would attempt to bring the gospel to bear in their situation, that individual was often accused of being heartless, insensitive, arrogant, etc. Instead of helping and healing which only comes through the gospel, these survivor blogs only succeeded in allowing these wounded sheep to wallow in self-loathing and victimization. In the end, these survivor blogs left the wounded sheep emotional and spiritual cripples.

As for emotions, we need to teach people that living and re-living their lives based on their emotions will ultimately lead them down a dead-end street. Even David, when he cried out to God, didn’t take his refuge in his situation or emotion but in his knowledge and understanding of the Lord. How are you using the Gospel to point these people you meet with to God and to teach them about who He is and how we are to live in light of that understanding? If you’re just allowing them to endlessly wallow in the muck and mire of their past, you’re not caring for wounded sheep.

As for examples of how the Savior dealt with wounded sheep, yes it is clear that he was a man of compassion who was acquainted with all our hurts and sorrows. But, it is instructive that when dealing with hurting people, (even those victimized by spiritual authority) he did not leave them to wallow in the condition or situation in which he found them. He did not encourage them to spend ten years commiserating with each other about how bad their lives were and how bad the people were who hurt them. Unfortunately, in my experience that is exactly what survivor blogs have done and are doing. They have replaced the gospel with therapeutic labels, coping mechanisms, and catharsis.

[Julie Anne]

I fear that in some people’s quest to prove that most cases of abuse are really not abuse cases, but sin, they may be unintentionally re-victimizing legitimate abuse. Wouldn’t it be more loving to listen to the stories (1 Cor 13:7 “bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things”), trusting that the person is telling you the truth, showing love and compassion. Then, later if it was discovered that the person was probably in sin and perhaps there wasn’t real abuse, there would be ground on which to stand and an established relationship to gently confront the person. We must be careful to not not further inflict additional pain on God’s battered sheep and cause them to stumble. (Luke 17: 1-2 )

I have no desire to prove or disprove cases of abuse. I do have a desire to demonstrate the love, truth, and hope that the gospel can bring even to those who have suffered tremendous abuse.

T Howard said,

Unfortunately, in my experience with “survivor blogs,” I’ve seen a lot of commiserating but very little biblical counsel given. A lot of people may feel “safe” to share their experiences, but rarely are they challenged to move beyond their experiences and feelings and to apply the truth of the gospel to their situation.

We must be reading different blogs, because I see challenges to move on, and testimonies of moving on all the time. In fact, when “survivors” tell of finally attending a new church, or having come to a place of forgiveness, the rest cheer for them. Some, of course, are extremely bitter, some still untrusting, some have left the faith. They are encouraged to deal with those things, too. And the unbelievers are gently re-evangelized. There is, as I said, wisdom and foolishness. But there is wisdom.

Barry T said:

If the majority of the church wanted him to stay, we would have just left and attended another church.

There again, measuring others by our strength. Your father was already standing up to this autocrat. He did the right thing. In some places, there is no one like your Dad to stand up and draw strength from, or men like your Dad are swept away and others are left to drown in that situation. The fact is, Survivor blogs, messy as they can be, have rescued others from the autocrat by exposure.

Just this week, one large and well known church held a “family meeting,” at which, after many years, the pastoral staff one-by-one confessed their sins and invited the wounded to come to them and find healing with them through Christ. Here’s a snippet of what the pastor said:

We don’t want to miss the opportunity God is giving us to humble ourselves and repent of our sins.

And we use the word “sin” very purposefully here. It’s easy for us to want to couch these issues as merely deficiencies or mistakes. But God has used the events of the past year to help us see where we’ve failed to rightly teach and practice his word and where we’ve been proud and have sinned. And we can admit that because we have a sin-bearing Savior who died on the cross for our sins. Jesus didn’t die for leadership deficiencies but there is grace for sins because Jesus shed his blood for us.

A year ago, the Senior pastor invited his members to read the Survivor Blogs, while others said to shun them. He chose the humble path and restoration is taking place. Those who took the “tough line” have confessed nothing, and left. I rejoice in these humble men taking responsibility for their sin. What examples! Whether or not He approves of all that goes on there, God used the Survivors to help put this confession and restoration in motion.

There are definitely dangers in survivor blogging and sins can be seen there. But they are not the big problem. The problem is all too common unbiblical, authoritarian leadership. That problem is exacerbated when other leaders side, by default, with the oppressors against the oppressed. (I will choose the word oppressor since some can’t accept that there is such a thing as “abuse”). Fred’s post struck me in just that way, siding with a pastor who has a screw loose against Julie Ann, who is forthright enough to post here. (And my goodness, the woman has been sued! If that’s not sufficient cause to go public, I don’t know what is) When we think about the bloggers, we should always have in mind where the greater accountability lies – and that is with leadership. When we attack the bloggers indiscriminately, we risk siding with the oppressor. There are a lot of people in ministry that shouldn’t be.

The value of these blogs is an important discussion to have, their dangers and benefits. One thing is sure. It’s a new day. The internet is going to be a place where spiritual leaders will be held accountable. As a pastor, do I want every mistake I’ve made posted on the internet? No. I am as vain and image conscious as anyone. I wouldn’t want it, but I may need it. And if my ministry generates “survivors” who did not leave because they wanted to sin, but because of my sin, I had better take a good look at myself.

I’ve read these posts and Julie Ann’s blog with interest. While I don’t consider myself a victim of such spiritual abuse, it could have in fact happened. We were in a fundamentalist GARB church in CA where the pastor was EXTREMELY legalistic. He told us how to dress, what kind of hair styles we could have, what we could/could not watch on television, what we could/could not listen to on the radio, he had to verify each and every song that was sung at church, even told one family that they could not attend a family member’s wedding because it was in a church that “we must separate from”! There was gossip running rampant, to the point that we were just chatting with some friends there and mentioned Christian liberty, and that got back to the pastor. He called us in and told us that “He will determine our Christian liberty for us, and we were not to question the shephard guiding the sheep.” We stayed at the church for a year until God, in his provision for us, moved us to a new position cross-country.

I found out, quite by accident, about 20 years later, that this same pastor had abused students in the now-defunct Christian school that he ran while we were there, and that my son attended. Suddenly, it all made sense. He had left by then, but was arrested and returned to CA for trial, where he plead “no-contest” and is now serving time in prison. I’ve grown and moved on, but I can’t help but wonder what would have happened had we stayed there.

Teri, that’s an excellent example. I think it’s a textbook example of spiritually abusive leadership. The big question is: is it permissible or sinful to point out the extreme control and legalism on the web? Is it revenge to do so, or helping others avoid a toxic situation? Would it help others evaluating the church? Is it gossip? My point is that if there is any wrong in such sharing, the much, much greater wrong is what that pastor was doing while you attended there.

[Wayne Wilson]

The big question is: is it permissible or sinful to point out the extreme control and legalism on the web? Is it revenge to do so, or helping others avoid a toxic situation? Would it help others evaluating the church? Is it gossip? My point is that if there is any wrong in such sharing, the much, much greater wrong is what that pastor was doing while you attended there.

Wayne, how does Scripture answer your questions? We do know that moral equivalence is not taught in Scripture.

A masterful statement of the obvious.

The reason that predators seem to so easily infiltrate churches is that we are often scared to death to be guilty of gossip or rebellion. We know how important it is that our speech be graceful, charitable, salty, and honest. We want to be good examples to our children, to teach them how to respect and submit to authority. But it is never in anyone’s best interest to not speak out about unBiblical, immoral, unethical behavior, nor is it unScriptural. There are guidelines for approaching the brethren and church leadership about doubts and questions and misconduct, and we should be careful to observe those procedures, as they are not just there to ensure justice, but for everyone’s protection.

However- criminal acts require us to notify law enforcement. That shouldn’t even be a question.

T Howard wrote

Wayne, how does Scripture answer your questions? We do know that moral equivalence is not taught in Scripture.

I’m sorry, Tom. Is there a disagreement? My point is that there is not moral equivalnce here. There is a greater burden of responsibility on the shepherd, thus a greater sin.

T Howard asks: How are you using the Gospel to point these people you meet with to God and to teach them about who He is and how we are to live in light of that understanding? If you’re just allowing them to endlessly wallow in the muck and mire of their past, you’re not caring for wounded sheep.

My blog serves multiples purposes. It is a place for people to tell their stories, to discuss abuse, to learn about real abuse in the church (again, I’m not talking about church government disagremeents, but real abuse). The original intent was to make a connection with people who were former members - to tell them that they were not alone, that there was real abuse, that it was okay to talk now, and it was okay to move on to get healing. I described my experiences, how it affected my faith, how it affected my family and my family’s faith (my 26-yr old daughter has tragically left the faith because of this terrible church experience - this is probably the fire in me that causes me to speak out - when you lose your kid, nothing else seems to matter).

In an abusive church there are lies that are told. My adult son came away with the thought that there is nothing he can do to measure up, so why bother. He was left in a state of spiritual confusion and complacency and didn’t care because he knew he sinned and was on his way to hell anyway, so why bother? So many messages were on sin, sin, sin, and very little grace. Thankfully, someone recently came into his life and challenged his thinking. Please keep him in prayers, he is not on solid ground yet. So, I’ve already mentioned two of my own kids. Do you understand my passion? Imagine someone pulling the rug under your children’s spiritual lives. This is what I saw from so many of teens and now young adults - most of whom have completely turned away form God and the church. These lies have to be challenged. Someone needs to call out the falsehoods and show the negative fruit so they can see for themselves. I am attempting to do that. Someone needs to identify behaviors that are unhealthy and unscriptural. The blog serves that purpose, too.

Additionally, I discuss healthy churches, healthy pastors and provide resources. Because of the media, two pastors have stumbled across the blog. I am so appreciative of these men who have contributed and comment on the blog. They may be the first pastors some have connected with since their abusive church experience and these men are showing Christ in their responses. If you are a pastor and care for hurting sheep, I invite you to read and respond, too.

The personal stories I have read have left me in tears. People who say “get over it and move along” really don’t have a clue. It’s interesting how callous people can be (and I’ve seen evidence of that here). Some people give more credibility to rape and physical abuse, yet when we are talking about someone’s eternal soul, they say to move along and get over it. The reality is that if we do not handle these precious souls carefully, many times they become atheists and those are the ones who speak loudly against Christ. I had an enormous amount of e-mail and comments from people after the media attention telling me that they became atheists after a horrible church experience. If the Bible is clear about false teachers and wolves and battered sheep, we need to take a good look and see if we are giving that issue the attention it deserves. God is not abandoning His hurting sheep, but many Christians are by their negative responses. That is not love, nor compassion.

[Wayne Wilson]

T Howard wrote

Wayne, how does Scripture answer your questions? We do know that moral equivalence is not taught in Scripture.

I’m sorry, Tom. Is there a disagreement? My point is that there is not moral equivalnce here. There is a greater burden of responsibility on the shepherd, thus a greater sin.

There is no disagreement between us if you agree that the answers we provide to the questions you asked must come from Scripture. There is also no disagreement between us if you agree that the sin of the offender does not justify the sin of the offended.

Tom, I don’t disagree with those points. I was thrown by the idea of moral equivalence. I believe the oppressive shepherd’s sin is greater in God’s eyes than the oppressed person’s weakened faith or anger.

But I do agree that Scripture should answer the questions I asked, and that no sin is justified, as Rick Thomas said in his superior posting.

Also, I hope we can all take what Julie Ann just posted to heart. I would rather my child be physically beat up than have their spirit crushed in God’s house.