Why there was no “evangelical-modernist” controversy

This is yet another example of a conservative evangelical admitting in public that the fundamentalist were right and the newevangelicalis were wrong. And yet…..we’ll still have Type A’s that will want to say something how this just isn’t enough of a mia-culpa…….oh sigh!

I think RC Jr. has said this sort of thing before. Thanks my brother!

Straight Ahead!

jt

Sounds like he wants to be at least a Type B- or C+. :)

Joel,

Can you point me to a summary of these types you’re talking about? I think I used to know what it meant, but now it’s foggy.

Shayne

Shayne,

SI will post a new presentation of my taxonomy soon - very soon.

Straight Ahead!

jt

Joel:

I think it is mea culpa. :) Maybe a Latin scholar will correct us both.

Fred

To anyone who wants to listen:

This article has been around awhile. I have a hard copy and am thrilled to be able to store it electronically.

I am one of Joel’s “Type A” guys, if I understand him right. In my mind I am just an old fundamentalist who believes we should not cooperate with unbelievers (2 Jn 10), and that the believer who does make league with unbelievers becomes “partaker of their evil deeds” (2 Jn 11 KJV) or “takes part in his wicked works” (2 Jn 11, ESV).

I don’t want any apology from new evangelicals, conservative evangelicals, or anyone else.

What I really want is for fundamentalists to take R. C. Sproul’s words to heart and again act like consistent, loyal to the Word, biblically militant, and sweet-spirited fundamentalists.

Fred Moritz

Mea Culpa on my mea culpa - thx for the help with spelling. If I struggle with English imagine the horrific mess I make of Latin and other languages - wowzers!

Fred…….you are not old….but thx for posting. This gives me a perfect chance to teach and/or illustrate the taxonomy as I see it:

Pay attention class:

For me a type A guy quotes the passages that Fred quotes and says that only Fundamentalists believe and practice those consistently. (And of course Fred would know the verses on separation because he wrote a book on it! Which is a good thing!)

For me a type B guy quotes the passages that Fred quotes and says that many careful Fundamentalists and many militant Evangelicals both believe and practice those consistently.

For me a type C guy knows those passages that Fred quotes but is rather busy living them out and barely knows and probably doesn’t care that they are being accused of not knowing or practicing those verses by the people that are accusing them of not knowing or not practicing those verses because they are busy chasing big hairy elephants out of their tent!

jt

ps - One more note - there are lots and lots of young men, middle-age men and old men who are God-loving, Scripture-Following, Hymn-Singing, Biblically Militant and Sweet-Spirited Christians that agree with both RC Jr and Fred Sr, who are found in a variety of ecclesiastical “orbs” - which, I really believe, sort of …… makes my case. Look if RC Jr and Fred Sr can get along……why can’t we all just get along.

Class dismissed! :)

Straight Ahead!

Joel,

That summary reminds me well of what you mean. Call me a type B. It’s not the only way to slice the pie of the movement, but it’s a good way to figure out the “idea.” I’d be interested in an effort to look at the cultural trappings of fundamentalisms as well (e.g. music, movies, dress, the doctrine of hair) and how that fits into the abc’s.

Shayne,

Good job! By and large there is almost no difference between Type B and C on the cultural issues you refer to - music, entertainment, hairology, etc…..Type A’s are often more strict than their B/C brethren - or - brethriem. Type B’s almost always have come out of Type A or A+ (A+ = KJV onlyism; Hyles stuff) fundamentalist ranks. Type C guys have come out of the main of evangelicalism. The B and C guys are bumping into each other trying to figure this “new world” out. At first everyone is careful because the B guys remember the A guys accusing the C guys of being “compromisers.” The C guys remember their non C evangelical friends warning that A or B fundamentalists are idiots because they are fundamentalists. I stand in the gap…..telling everyone to just shut up and hug each other all ready….but not in a mean sort of way. It’s a hard job…..but I’m way OK with it now. Man I’ve enjoyed not talking about this ABC thing for several years. I’m really going to try not to comment much more on this. This topic is so 2007! :)

Straight Ahead!

jt

It became clear to me several years ago that many conservative evangelicals practice Biblical separation. I think Joel called them militant evangelicals above. We see recent examples of this in regard to T4G and The Elephant Room, but this is not new.

When those who are classified as Evangelicals practice separation, what “separates” them from Fundamentalists? What it usually boils down to is that they don’t practice separation in exactly the same way in every detail that we think they should. This is a slippery slope. We can too easily lose the original premise of Fundamentalism, namely a clear stand for truth, and separation from apostasy, and degenerate into endless nit-picking and in-fighting over less consequential matters. That is why Fundamentalism, as a movement, has lost its way. Too often, it has become a defense of my circle of influence rather than a defense of the Gospel.

Statements like this one by R. C. Sproul are refreshing and enlightening. It demonstrates that conservative Evangelicals can recognize weaknesses in their “camp” and speak out against them. When Fundamentalists do the same, perhaps some measure of restoration of historic Fundamentalism will come. As it is, too many Fundamentalists are still picking the mote out of the Evangelical’s eye, and failing to recognize the beam in their own.

Joel,

I grew up at Bob Jones all my life, then went to DC and was a member at Capitol Hill Baptist for a few years under Mark Dever. Now I’m at a church plant from a more fundamentalist church, but we look a lot like Capitol Hill meets Greenville Fundamentalism, except with more denim. I didn’t see a great difference between CHBC and reasonable fundamentalists, and I’m really glad for your impulse to have everyone hug each other, as long as it’s manly.

Shayne

Shayne dude,

The hug is way manly!

Straight Ahead!

jt

[Shaynus] Joel,

I grew up at Bob Jones all my life, then went to DC and was a member at Capitol Hill Baptist for a few years under Mark Dever. Now I’m at a church plant from a more fundamentalist church, but we look a lot like Capitol Hill meets Greenville Fundamentalism, except with more denim. I didn’t see a great difference between CHBC and reasonable fundamentalists, and I’m really glad for your impulse to have everyone hug each other, as long as it’s manly.

Shayne

There are still a few holdouts who haven’t yielded to denim.

Yeah, Ron. That’s because they don’t make skinny jeans in your size. ;-)

Shayne,
I did not realize you were Bruce’s son - love your Dad and appreciate him greatly.

I do question the future of fundamentalism if it does not include navy blue sport coats and tan pants.

:D

So Shayne,

Who is your dad?

jt