The Most Wonderful Sin of the Year
[22] “You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. [23] And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. [24] And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, [25] then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses [26] and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
(Deuteronomy 14:22-26 ESV)
Gluttony seems to imply simply consuming more than your body needs.I don’t think that’s it at all, Susan. God could have said to the children “feast before the Lord your God on whatever you want, as long as it’s not over what you need.” That’s totally not the picture we’re given. I think God intended feasting in the Bible as a shadow of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb to come.
[10] And you shall eat and be full, and you shall bless the LORD your God for the good land he has given you.To eat and be full is to eat more than your body needs in that moment. The examples you gave of gluttony in the Roman world point not to the fact that they ate more than their body needed, but that it was past the point of fullness. Gluttony is over-fullness. Which is not the same as over what you need. I think God intended times of normal moderation, fasting, and excess at various times in the calendar year to communicate various truths to Israel. We shouldn’t lose the biblical ability to piously pig out once in a while.
(Deuteronomy 8:10 ESV)
Shaynus- you need to direct your previous comment to Brenda T. But I will insert here that eating until one is satisfied can be 1) more than one ‘needs’ 2) less than pigging out. An unhealthy appetite goes beyond satisfaction and into excess. What is excess if it is not consumption of whatever beyond being satiated? I don’t think the possibility of “piously pigging out” exists.
But- we tend to eat a meal in a short time span at one sitting. Along with the idea of feasting as eating a greater variety of foods in praise and gratitude to God, feasting is an ongoing activity. One is not scarfing down an uncomfortable and unhealthy amount of food in 20 minutes.
But- we tend to eat a meal in a short time span at one sitting. Along with the idea of feasting as eating a greater variety of foods in praise and gratitude to God, feasting is an ongoing activity. One is not scarfing down an uncomfortable and unhealthy amount of food in 20 minutes.
Sorry for the misattribution Susan.
According to the Deut text above, God seemed to be saying to the children of Israel to feast on whatever their hearts desired. To define the meal necessarily as a variety of foods exclusively doesn’t really fit the text. I’ve seen plenty of food shows on TV where bedouins kill a camel or goat, and that’s pretty much the feast. Maybe there’s a little couscous or barley stuffed in the cavity, but not much else.
I also think you’re importing a little too much negativity into my “pigging out” lingo. There is a good kind of pigging out and a bad kind.
According to the Deut text above, God seemed to be saying to the children of Israel to feast on whatever their hearts desired. To define the meal necessarily as a variety of foods exclusively doesn’t really fit the text. I’ve seen plenty of food shows on TV where bedouins kill a camel or goat, and that’s pretty much the feast. Maybe there’s a little couscous or barley stuffed in the cavity, but not much else.
I also think you’re importing a little too much negativity into my “pigging out” lingo. There is a good kind of pigging out and a bad kind.
but if you can find a flattering description of a pig in Scripture, let me know. :)
I’m simply trying to separate what we think of as ‘feasting’ and what is described in Scripture as feasting. Feasting had specific purposes and a spiritual meaning attached. I do not find that in our modern ‘feasting’ methods and attitudes. And I don’t find it to be consistent with other Scripture that feasting entails eating beyond being satisfied. God may have told them to eat whatever their heart desired, but ‘whatever’ is ‘whatever’ without distinction, not ‘whatever’ without exception.
I’m simply trying to separate what we think of as ‘feasting’ and what is described in Scripture as feasting. Feasting had specific purposes and a spiritual meaning attached. I do not find that in our modern ‘feasting’ methods and attitudes. And I don’t find it to be consistent with other Scripture that feasting entails eating beyond being satisfied. God may have told them to eat whatever their heart desired, but ‘whatever’ is ‘whatever’ without distinction, not ‘whatever’ without exception.
Shaynus,
You quoted from Deuteronomy 14 and followed that up with my quote as if I had been providing a commentary on that passage. My comment that you lifted was within the context of feasting at guild meetings in the first century Roman empire.
However, I’ll provide a brief commentary on the Deut. passage. This is a tithe passage. Those who were traveling from too far away to haul their entire tithe could instead sell it for money, bring that money, then purchase whatever they desired as an offering/tithe to the Lord. Yes, they partook of some of that tithe, but not all. These types of things were probably eaten communally. As far as the “whatever you desire” it could possibly refer to them having a choice as to what to offer for the tithe. If they were bringing the actual products of their labors, they had to give what they had grown or raised. But, let’s say they sold their wheat and goats for money, brought the money, then purchased whatever they desired — meaning they didn’t have to purchase “in kind” they could purchase something different than what they had sold in the first place. The people who brought their tithe with them in the form of grain or livestock did not have a choice as to whatever they desired, they were stuck with what they had brought.
You quoted from Deuteronomy 14 and followed that up with my quote as if I had been providing a commentary on that passage. My comment that you lifted was within the context of feasting at guild meetings in the first century Roman empire.
However, I’ll provide a brief commentary on the Deut. passage. This is a tithe passage. Those who were traveling from too far away to haul their entire tithe could instead sell it for money, bring that money, then purchase whatever they desired as an offering/tithe to the Lord. Yes, they partook of some of that tithe, but not all. These types of things were probably eaten communally. As far as the “whatever you desire” it could possibly refer to them having a choice as to what to offer for the tithe. If they were bringing the actual products of their labors, they had to give what they had grown or raised. But, let’s say they sold their wheat and goats for money, brought the money, then purchased whatever they desired — meaning they didn’t have to purchase “in kind” they could purchase something different than what they had sold in the first place. The people who brought their tithe with them in the form of grain or livestock did not have a choice as to whatever they desired, they were stuck with what they had brought.
Brenda, I agree with you I think. The point is that there are all kinds of feasts: Sin and not sin. What makes one kind of feasting sin, and another not? I can’t see how the line is more than your body needs. I just can’t. I would think the line is closer to eating to the point of vomiting, or eating consistently out of control. But an occasional big time feast in thanks to God foreshadows the Great Feast God has prepared for us. There is nothing wrong with eating way more than you need. We don’t NEED much. I think the Puritans had it about right, and behold, Thanksgiving.
Brenda, I agree with you I think.Not sure what it is I wrote that you’re agreeing with. You stated from the Deut. passage that “whatever you desire” is somehow giving permission to “piously pig out” [your words]. I was stating that “whatever you desire” in Deut. means if you sold a goat for money, you don’t need to use that money to buy another goat once you’ve arrived at your destination for the tithe offering. One could use that money to buy a different animal. My statements regarding that passage had nothing to do with how stuffed a person is permitted to become while eating. My statements were attempting to show that the passage has nothing to do with “pigging out.” And, for the record, we know there weren’t any pigs being offered and eaten, right? :O
Discussion