"Joe Paterno presents an example for fundamentalists that I hope they won’t ignore"

as I understand it (and again based on media reports only so the validity of that can be questioned) that Joe Paterno did everything legally required of him and everything required of him by school policy. I also don’t think that Joe Paterno would inintiate a wrongful termination suit from all that I have read about his character and his desire to protect the school.

Why didn’t the citizens of Pennsylvania care enough to make sure laws were in place to make it a crime to fail to report any such information directly and immediately to the police? They didn’t care. By not passing such laws they told people like Joe Paterno, “The norm and standard is to report it to your superior, that is okay with us”. Shame on Pennsylvania for not passing that law, they are to blame for this not being reported to the police.

…all it takes is the mere accusation of such a heinous thing to ruin a man’s life. All it takes is just the accusation to disqualify you from some jobs. The question asked is not “Have you ever been convicted of child abuse?”, but “Have you ever been accused of child abuse?” All it takes is one disgruntled person - adult or child - to make a false accusation, and you’re toast.

The original intent of going through a workplace procedure was to weed out those spurious accusations from the valid accusations. (And if you are honest, you KNOW that spurious accusations happen every day.)

How far is this going to go? Are we going to put the entire commonwealth of Pennsylvania on trial? Every person who ever played NCAA football? Every person who eve played NCAA sports of any kind? Every person who ever breathed air in the presence of a minor?

Brothers and sisters in Christ, please do not buy into the media hysteria. I am among the first to say that pedophiles should pay the most severe penalties (some of which I cannot share on a family oriented site such as SI.). And, as I have said in another thread, if I ever witness child molestation, my first and only call will be to the police. But I will not be drawn into mob hysteria generated by the mainstream media of this country.

1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

What media hysteria? Did you watch the ESPN video I linked to above? It is a calm presentation of the facts and timeline of the case.

Sandusky brought shame on Penn State University by his actions. Paterno and his fellow PSU administrators brought shame on Penn State University by failing to do what it would take to bring this man to justice and keep him from harming other children. In this situation Paterno had a higher moral responsibility than merely following the letter of the law. I’m surprised that the PSU trustees and the vast majority of the American public seem to understand that but some on here don’t seem to.

As to whether Paterno has a case for wrongful termination…I’m no lawyer, but I’m sure his contract has something about representing the university well, etc. I live in Iowa, and a few years ago the head men’s basketball coach at Iowa State University was fired when a photograph surfaced of him standing next to a coed with a beer in his hand at some kind of college party. He did absolutely nothing illegal, but he brought shame to the university.

I would strongly encourage you to read the Facebook post linked to above by the member of the PSU Cru ministry. He says it far better than I can.

Pastor Long,

Here is what my post was addressing.

First the perpetrator was arrested.

OK. Who elws can we blame? AD and CFO! Yeah, lets get them!

OK, Who else can we get? JoePa and University president! Yeah, Get them, too!

OK, Who else? Student body at Penn State MUST have known something was wrong. They’re TOAST!

OK, Who Else? Citizens of State College, PA! They had to be in on it too! Nail Them!!!

OK, Who else? “Why didn’t the citizens of Pennsylvania care enough to make sure laws were in place to make it a crime to fail to report any such information directly and immediately to the police? They didn’t care.” (quoted from post above)

What socio/economic group will the media whip us up in a frenzy on next?

We are seeing trial by media for all these groups. Pretty soon, every person who ever played Pop Warner football east of the Mississippi, their coaches, and their parents, will all be guilty of not caring.

Where does it end?

C’mon, guys. where does it stop?

Karl,

Paterno and the university administrators who were canned deserve to be “blamed” and should have been canned.

I’ve read a lot about this and I haven’t read anyone saying the student body or the citizens of State College should be blamed other than for the specific actions of those who stupidly rioted in support of Paterno and destroyed some property.

I believe Alex was being sarcastic in his post above when he was saying we should blame the citizens of Pennsylvania. He was trying to make the same point you are making, but I just don’t see it.

Can you point me to some specific articles in the media where they blame the student body, the citizens of State College, or the citizens of Pennsylvania for what happened?

Pastor Long,

I haven’t been keeping track of all the comments I have heard on the media, read on the internet. It was not my intent to write a documented dissertation on the pros and cons of reacting to the horrific situation unfolding at PSU.

Perspective: I may have a different perspective on this than you do.

Have you ever been accused of child abuse? I have.

(Did you hear that collective thud? that was a large number of people shutting me off without hearing anything about the situation other than I was ACCUSED of child abuse.)

We were the foster parents of a sibling group many years ago. As a retaliatory strike, one of the blood relatives documented certain behaviors in these children which indicated that they had been abused, and accused us of being the abusers.

The protective investigator did a thourough investigation, and determined the accusation to be UNFOUNDED. Because, unbeknownst to the family…

The children DID exhibit behaviors which indicated that they had been abused. We had observed these behaviors on the very night that they were placed with us, and we documented them and submitted the report to the child welfare case worker involved. (Who did nothing with it…)

But, the fact that the behavior predated their placement in our home doesn’t matter. The fact that the accusation was determined to be unfounded doesn’t matter. The only thing that most people reading this post have heard is “I was accused of child abuse.” Where there’s smoke, there’s fire, right? One unfounded accusation does not mean that there are not other accusations that *are* valid, right?

From my perspective, there has been a rush to judgement in many of these cases - especially in the multitude of media reports published in the last week. From my perspective, there has been a mob mentality spinning out of control. From my perspective there has been a “hang ‘em all, and let God sort ‘em out” reaction. From my perspective there is a concerted effort to make sure everyone who ever breathed the same air as the actual perpetrator shares his fate, and anyone who knew those people, as well.

In the court of public opinion, anyone who advocates that we stop, take a deep breath, get our emotions under control, and then procede in a decent, orderly manner is a person who wants children to continue to be molested. Nothing could be further than the truth!

OF COURSE I am outraged when I hear of the crimes the perpetrator has been charged with. Having been faced with that situation in the past, my first thought has been to grab the closest weapon and go looking for the perpetrator. (By the grace of God, I didn’t.) I am not in favor of letting the guilty go free. Neither am I in favor of figuratively hanging people in addition to the perpetrator based on (notoriously unreliable) media reports.

I have been on the “rushing” end of a rush to judgement more than once, and I have always regretted it. I have lost friendships and ministry opportunities because I jumped on the bandwagon without looking first. I have been on the receiving end of a rush to judgement, and it ripped my heart that people I considered friends would not even listen to the fact that I could not have done that of which I was accused, because I wasn’t even there. Their minds were made up, and they did not want to be confused by the facts.

I’m going to guess that Proverbs 17:9 does not apply to criminal acts. However, as has been mentioned previously, I believe Proverbs 18:13 applies in this situation. In all honesty and humility, I am not casting aspersions on any one, and especially not on you, Pastor Long. But I do think we are making determinations on this subject without having all the facts.

When all the facts are in, from sources OTHER than media interviews, if it is shown that all of these men have done something wrong, I will join you in condemning them. But, for now, I will watch, and wait, and try to get the whole sordid story before making a judgement.

God Bless,

Rev Karl
Ephesians 5:8

Against my better judgment, I’m going to comment once (and only once) on this thread. I’m not commenting about Paterno, but about the assistant coach who did not stop the rape.

This man failed horribly. I think anyone, after the fact, would say that.

Do you know why his life is totally destroyed today? Because he reported it to his superiors. If he said nothing, pretended it never happened, and walked away, no one knows. The boy probably wouldn’t know who saw him.

The lynch mob wants to kill him. How will he ever get a job anywhere? But he reported it to his superiors. He didn’t do >nothing< like some people would have.

In a crisis, he failed. Horribly. But if others had done what they should have, his report would have been the key to ending it and protecting many other victims.

He’ll never really get any credit for making that report, though. The lynch mob won’t slow down.

I wonder what the next guy who sees something does, if he fails in the moment of crisis? Will he report it, trusting that those to whom he reports it are going to do right and protect him? Or will he just keep his mouth shut, because it is safer that way? Because the media launches a feeding frenzy that endangers your life, and maybe even your family, if you failed in the moment of crisis?

It’s an ugly world out there.

I’m sorry, JG, I don’t understand your post. Are you saying he shouldn’t have reported it to his superiors? Or that he isn’t being given proper credit for what he did do?

Now, none of us can say with absolute certainty what we would have done in someone else’s place. But keep in mind that…

1) He failed to intervene while a boy was being raped. Again I ask, what if the boy were being beaten? Would he have intervened?
2) He waited one entire day before taking any action.
3) To his credit, he did take the step of informing his boss. However, he did not call the police. He should have done both. He also did not, to our knowledge, follow up to see if Paterno or anyone else called the police.

As for the “next guy” who witnesses something, maybe there are more than just two choices (tell a superior or do nothing). Maybe the next guy will have learned from this tragedy that he should immediately call the police. That’s one of the few good things that can come from this, and would be a direct result of the media reporting on this situation.

[JG] Against my better judgment, I’m going to comment once (and only once) on this thread.

I know exactly what you mean, Brother. :-) I am beginning to regret weighing in on this, myself.

[JG] I wonder what the next guy who sees something does, if he fails in the moment of crisis? Will he report it, trusting that those to whom he reports it are going to do right and protect him? Or will he just keep his mouth shut, because it is safer that way? Because the media launches a feeding frenzy that endangers your life, and maybe even your family, if you failed in the moment of crisis?

Dial 9-1-1.

You have to remember that we are all looking at this with they eyes of 2011.

When this was first observed and reported, there was a reporting procedure in place to protect the victim AND the accused. Because, let’s face it: kids are really good at messing up the lives of their teachers if they are angry at their teachers. (And, if I remember correctly, the “accuser” in this case was still a student: a graduate assistant, still very low on the college food chain.)

The accusation had to be taken seriously, but there could not be an automatic assumption that the teacher was guilty. Not just *any* Tom, Dick or Harry could make a direct report to the police without suffering consequences from their employer for “going around the system.” Certain individuals or groups were tasked with determining the validity of an accusation, and reporting it to law enforcement, if necessary.

In my experience with child welfare organizations, and the family court judges they work under, I have seen “the system” fail miserably. My experiance as an advocate for children who have been abused, and my conversations with law enforcement officers, have led me to the conclusion that evidence of child molestation should be reported to the police directly. Not a superior. Not the state Abuse Registry. Direct to law enforcement.

But that is looking back with the eyes of 2011, and 20/20 hindsight. The witch hunt going on at PSU today smacks of changing the rules after the game has been played, and holding you accountable now for rules that weren’t in place then.

Agreed, “the system” failed. Every person from the GA coaching assistant all the way up to the recently departed president of the university (was he even the president when this all started?) wishes he had grabbed the nearest guy with a badge and dragged him bodily into the football training facility. But that is looking back at it now, with our 2011 knowledge and sensibilities.

Yes, my Brother, it certainly is an ugly world out there.

Revelation 22:20

[Greg Long] I’m sorry, JG, I don’t understand your post. Are you saying he shouldn’t have reported it to his superiors?

Pastor Long,

I think JG’s post is along the lines of “No good deed goes unpunished.”

I understand that you do not believe that ANYONE at Penn State, State College, or perhaps the entire commonwealth of Pennsylvania, did anything good in this case. Ever. But this guy did exactly what he had been instructed to do. And, for that, he will loose his job, his reputation, his life as he knows it… all because he did not know in 1996 what the rules would be in 2011.

[Rev Karl]

[Greg Long] I’m sorry, JG, I don’t understand your post. Are you saying he shouldn’t have reported it to his superiors?

Pastor Long,

I think JG’s post is along the lines of “No good deed goes unpunished.”

I understand that you do not believe that ANYONE at Penn State, State College, or perhaps the entire commonwealth of Pennsylvania, did anything good in this case. Ever. But this guy did exactly what he had been instructed to do. And, for that, he will loose his job, his reputation, his life as he knows it… all because he did not know in 1996 what the rules would be in 2011.

That’s correct, Karl. He obeyed the rules.

He failed horribly in his moral responsibility at the crisis point, but he obeyed the rules. He (and Paterno) should have and could have done more, so there was a moral failure there, too. I’m not exonerating him.

But as far as human consequences in this life go, he would be better off today right now if he had kept his mouth shut. And the vengeful mob mentality runs the risk of scaring people into just pretending they didn’t see and doing NOTHING.

Do we want to scare people into doing nothing out of fear that they don’t get everything right, and might become targets of the mob as a result?

The people who did nothing were his (and Paterno’s) superiors. At least he did SOMETHING. Why is he the one getting death threats? He failed to stop one rape. They allowed many more to happen.

[Rev Karl]

[Greg Long] I’m sorry, JG, I don’t understand your post. Are you saying he shouldn’t have reported it to his superiors?

Pastor Long,

I think JG’s post is along the lines of “No good deed goes unpunished.”

I understand that you do not believe that ANYONE at Penn State, State College, or perhaps the entire commonwealth of Pennsylvania, did anything good in this case. Ever. But this guy did exactly what he had been instructed to do. And, for that, he will loose his job, his reputation, his life as he knows it… all because he did not know in 1996 what the rules would be in 2011.

No, that is ABSOLUTELY NOT what I believe. I don’t understand why I am being misrepresented. I have said nothing of the sort. The only people I have made a judgment about are Sandusky, McQuery, Paterno, Curley, the VP, and the President. Not anyone else at Penn State. Not anyone else at State College. Not anyone else in the entire commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

He did “exactly what he had been instructed to do?” He was instructed when he saw a boy being raped only to report it to a superior a day later? (By the way, this happened in 2002, not 1996.) Even if those were the instructions, what about common sense and moral decency, whether it is 2002 or 2011?

By the way, I oversaw the creation of the child protection policy at the church at which I formerly served. Part of the policy talked about what to do in case of suspicions of abuse, and the instructions were that both a supervisor and the authorities were to be notified if there were a “reasonable suspicion” of abuse (the authorities were to be notified by either the person making the report or a church leader). I think observing a rape would be categorized as a “reasonable suspicion” of abuse. If a person in our church observed a boy being raped and reported it to me, I hope they would also report it to the authorities or press me to see if I had reported it to the authorities.

[JG]

[Rev Karl]

[Greg Long] I’m sorry, JG, I don’t understand your post. Are you saying he shouldn’t have reported it to his superiors?

Pastor Long,

I think JG’s post is along the lines of “No good deed goes unpunished.”

I understand that you do not believe that ANYONE at Penn State, State College, or perhaps the entire commonwealth of Pennsylvania, did anything good in this case. Ever. But this guy did exactly what he had been instructed to do. And, for that, he will loose his job, his reputation, his life as he knows it… all because he did not know in 1996 what the rules would be in 2011.

That’s correct, Karl. He obeyed the rules.

He failed horribly in his moral responsibility at the crisis point, but he obeyed the rules. He (and Paterno) should have and could have done more, so there was a moral failure there, too. I’m not exonerating him.

But as far as human consequences in this life go, he would be better off today right now if he had kept his mouth shut. And the vengeful mob mentality runs the risk of scaring people into just pretending they didn’t see and doing NOTHING.

Do we want to scare people into doing nothing out of fear that they don’t get everything right, and might become targets of the mob as a result?

The people who did nothing were his (and Paterno’s) superiors. At least he did SOMETHING. Why is he the one getting death threats? He failed to stop one rape. They allowed many more to happen.

JG, I am certainly not advocating death threats against McQuery. But as far as your statement “he would be better off today right now if he had kept his mouth shut,” you are absolutely wrong. The correct statement is, “He would be better off today if he did what was morally right.”

And this “vengeful mob mentality” (which is inflammatory language…who other than a very small minority of wackos is advocating physical violence against him? Can you point to any legitimate news account that is doing so?) I believe will “scare” people into doing the RIGHT thing. Again, you only see two options: either people tell their superiors or they are now scared into saying nothing. I see a third and more likely option, that they have come to understand what is the right thing to do in a similar situation.

But I will agree that his superiors are just as if not more guilty in this case.

Greg,

Just as you don’t want people putting words in your mouth, you should probably also read more carefully. The complete sentence reads:

[JG]
But as far as human consequences in this life go, he would be better off today right now if he had kept his mouth shut.

[Emphasis mine.]

Humanly speaking (not eternally), the assistant *would* be better off if he had never told anyone, because he wouldn’t be receiving all the negative attention he is receiving now if no one knew about it. Would he have been better off doing what was morally right? I’d like to say yes, but knowing how standards change and how things that were one way in the past are often seen differently with the benefit of hindsight, I’d really have to say that that is not a foregone conclusion.

And regarding “vengeful mob mentality,” it doesn’t require physical violence or threats of physical violence for that term to apply to what is happening in the media. Calls for censure, loss of job, prosecution, etc., etc., without benefit of knowing all the facts (something that would be wise to wait for before speaking in judgment, which is not only common sense, but also scriptural) are definitely indicative of a “hang ‘em high” mentality even if physical violence is not involved.

If people think that they will always be second-guessed after following the rules and/or what they believe to be right, they will almost always make the decision to not get involved. That is human nature. (By the way, that’s why there are “Good Samaritan” laws for EMTs or even those who have completed CPR training — to both prevent prosecution of those who tried to help, and to solve the problem of “not wanting to get involved” so that people will try to help one another.)

Along those lines, I have for a long time been involved in children’s ministries in various churches. If a church’s policy demanded reporting of any “reasonable suspicion” of abuse to secular authorities, and did not very clearly define what constitutes reasonable suspicion (and maybe even if it was clear, but the threshold was too easily reached), then I would have to decline being involved in such ministries. It would not be wise for me to put my family in a position of having their lives torn apart over “reasonable suspicion,” let alone what it would do to me and my own reputation. (And no, I’m not talking about an eyewitness to an event, which is clearly in a different category than just “suspicion,” no matter how “reasonable” it seems.)

I understand there have been plenty of attempts in the past to cover things up, even in fundamentalism, but that does not mean that the appropriate correction to such is a rush to judgment.