Dealing with Welfare Citizens
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I am certain that this is not limited to “my” church. How do we encourage people to grow in the Lord without enabling them to continue to live off of the system? Our area seems to be in a terrible recession and a morally depraved society. We don’t live in a big community. However, the amount of sexual predators, teen mothers, and even lesbians is astounding. We have many people who “scam” the church with sob stories about how they don’t have money to pay the rent but they have enough to play the lotto. Joe can attest to this one - HOARDERS. We have IONS of em and it seems that we attract them. I have been dealing with at least 3 in “my” church. One does not work at all. 42 years old and lives with mom and dad. He has NO income whatsoever. His “medical” excuse does not exist. Yet, he is faithful to church, and in devotions. However, he does not have a job, does not pay taxes, and does nothing to further the gospel in any form except when he comes to church. He constantly requests an opportunity to preach. He feels God has called him to the Pastorate. He won’t leave his house except to come to church. He doesn’t talk to anyone outside of his comfort zone. He is always asking about getting money for this and that. He was considered to be a spiritual leader in our church prior to my coming. Any Ideas on how to handle this situation? If I try to take him with me visiting, he finds some excuse why he can’t. As long as he has the spotlight he is ok, but it must be in his controlled environment.
Another lady, I have been working with for 6 years - she was leaching off of a friend. She had no place of her own. She was in financial distress. We assisted her in getting her own apartment (with government assistance). Now, I feel that we have created a monster. She has gained at least 50lbs since September because she just sits and watches TV. Mentally, I don’t know if she has it all there. She bounced her bank account 5 months in a row. After the 5th month, she asked for help. I told her she had to let someone in the church control her finances. She reluctantly agreed. Against her word, she went to the bank and bounced it again after it was balanced from her 3K errors from the previous month. She does not add to the church in any fashion. She sleeps through the lesson and sermons. I don’t want to offend her, but she doesn’t seem to care. I feel like we are a branch of her government assistance. She views us as a charitable institution rather than a place of worship and instruction. Any ideas how to fix the situation?
I don’t mean to be critical. I am frustrated that after 6 years I see NO progress in their lives or in their Christan walk.
Another lady, I have been working with for 6 years - she was leaching off of a friend. She had no place of her own. She was in financial distress. We assisted her in getting her own apartment (with government assistance). Now, I feel that we have created a monster. She has gained at least 50lbs since September because she just sits and watches TV. Mentally, I don’t know if she has it all there. She bounced her bank account 5 months in a row. After the 5th month, she asked for help. I told her she had to let someone in the church control her finances. She reluctantly agreed. Against her word, she went to the bank and bounced it again after it was balanced from her 3K errors from the previous month. She does not add to the church in any fashion. She sleeps through the lesson and sermons. I don’t want to offend her, but she doesn’t seem to care. I feel like we are a branch of her government assistance. She views us as a charitable institution rather than a place of worship and instruction. Any ideas how to fix the situation?
I don’t mean to be critical. I am frustrated that after 6 years I see NO progress in their lives or in their Christan walk.
By their fruit ye shall know them. It is easy to check for fruit in a span of 6 years, but it is always hard to accept our findings.
I don’t think it gets much easier than:
[II Thess 3:6-15] 6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. 9 It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. 11 For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. 12 Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.If it truly has been six years, and there is no real reason for them to be getting aid from the govn’t, and they continue to leech from the system with no guilt or no shame, then you should begin church discipline. Personally, it sounds to me like they may not even be real believers. The first guy - the one that wants to be the Pastor - is certainly not ‘above reproach’, ‘self-controlled’ or ‘respectable’, so that makes it super easy.
13 As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good. 14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
May I suggest something? Find out if these persons are on any medications and if so for what. The guy who wants to be a Pastor sounds like he has a problem with reality. The woman may have problems.
By finding out about medications you may find out something important. A person who is “mentally Ill” may be on some anti Psychotic medication that takes away the positive symptoms but leaves the negative symptoms. They will seem normal but their executive functions are minimal. Thus they lack motivation and organizational and planning skills. They may also not see reality and themselves properly. You mentioned mental problems with the lady. Perhaps she has a mental disability undiagnosed or it has been and the right questions have not been asked. You mentioned the man does not leave his house except for church. This can also be a symptom. Mental illness is a physiological problem treated only by Psychiatric medical diagnosis and treatment. Talking through counseling does not cure them. Also, find out if they are on SSI or SSDI. If so, what is their disability? Please be diligent in checking this all out before coming to conclusions regarding their degree personal responsibility. By the way some Psychotropic medications such as Zyprexa can cause a big weight gain. The woman evidently qualified for Section 8 housing assistance which means she may have a disability.
Please do a thorough investigation and analysis before coming to conclusions.
We at the “Christian Alliance on Mental Illness” are seeking to help churches minister to people who are victims of Mental Illness.
The final outcome may be that this is not mental illness but a life of sloth and lack of mental discipline but please exclude medical problems.
By the way some people will never “add” to the church. It is all they can do to survive this life and the church has the privilege of “adding” to their life.
By finding out about medications you may find out something important. A person who is “mentally Ill” may be on some anti Psychotic medication that takes away the positive symptoms but leaves the negative symptoms. They will seem normal but their executive functions are minimal. Thus they lack motivation and organizational and planning skills. They may also not see reality and themselves properly. You mentioned mental problems with the lady. Perhaps she has a mental disability undiagnosed or it has been and the right questions have not been asked. You mentioned the man does not leave his house except for church. This can also be a symptom. Mental illness is a physiological problem treated only by Psychiatric medical diagnosis and treatment. Talking through counseling does not cure them. Also, find out if they are on SSI or SSDI. If so, what is their disability? Please be diligent in checking this all out before coming to conclusions regarding their degree personal responsibility. By the way some Psychotropic medications such as Zyprexa can cause a big weight gain. The woman evidently qualified for Section 8 housing assistance which means she may have a disability.
Please do a thorough investigation and analysis before coming to conclusions.
We at the “Christian Alliance on Mental Illness” are seeking to help churches minister to people who are victims of Mental Illness.
The final outcome may be that this is not mental illness but a life of sloth and lack of mental discipline but please exclude medical problems.
By the way some people will never “add” to the church. It is all they can do to survive this life and the church has the privilege of “adding” to their life.
Pastor Tim,
I agree with Bob. The first guy sounds like someone who is mentally ill that receives SSI. With his financial situation, I would find out if he has a payee to help him control his finances so that he does not continue asking for help from you. Many years ago, I used to work of an organization called Servants Center that became payees for mentally ill street people, which helped them get an apartment, budget their money, and also became a friend that would keep them accountable. But it is really hard work….I will give you a suggestion or two about the woman after I come back from taking my kids to school….
I agree with Bob. The first guy sounds like someone who is mentally ill that receives SSI. With his financial situation, I would find out if he has a payee to help him control his finances so that he does not continue asking for help from you. Many years ago, I used to work of an organization called Servants Center that became payees for mentally ill street people, which helped them get an apartment, budget their money, and also became a friend that would keep them accountable. But it is really hard work….I will give you a suggestion or two about the woman after I come back from taking my kids to school….
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