At Cedarville, Dance Restrictions Lifted but not Completely
Details at http://cedars.cedarville.edu/news/dance-restrictions-lifted-but-not-com… ]Cedars , the campus news service at Cedarville University “The changes remove restrictions against students attending or organizing dances on or off campus and against dances being sponsored on campus or at University-sponsored events. But the only practical change for students as of now is that they are allowed to dance off campus as long as they avoid sexually provocative dance, unhealthy environments like bars and clubs, and dancing to inappropriate lyrics, Ruby said.”
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Actually I got carded last time I bought Nyquil.
(I’m 40 so it was legal, and it was for my oft infirmities only.)
(I’m 40 so it was legal, and it was for my oft infirmities only.)
[Susan R]
I agree that the loosening of moral boundaries is never a good thing, but those boundaries are supposed to be built and reinforced by parents and the local church, IMO. College is not the place for everyone to suddenly get a moral compass. That horse is long out of the corral.
I am aware of that, which is why I have tried to communicate that I am not surprised at this response. But as I also said, this is reflective of the attitudes of constituent churches. It is not a good thing, in my estimation, that many people in evangelical churches see little to no concern with the kind of dancing that occurs at proms and such. I remain quite skeptical that such shifts are motivated by the loud protests of square dance enthusiasts.
College isn’t going to magically endow its students with a moral compass, true. However, it can go a long way toward communicating expectations of behavior. What’s next? I mean, http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/4856233/detail.html internet pornography is becoming widely accepted in society. We could say that horse, if not out of the corral, is certainly eagerly eying the gate. In fact, I would venture to guess that if you could accurately survey students even at a place like Cedarville, there might be as many (if not more) students who have viewed pornography at one time or another as those who have attended a dance, especially amongst the males. With the plethora of mobile broadband devices, it’s not like you can control that with a campus filtering system, anyway. Should we ditch rules or honor codes about pornography viewing, too? I don’t think that is a ridiculous parallel.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
There have been a couple people indicating a moral or some sort of decline at Cedarville over the years. For those of us that have children reaching college age and haven’t followed Cedarville, what exactly has been the decline? Are they compromising on any doctrines, or are they just not following the typical IFB party line when it comes to standards/music/dancing/etc. (which of course would ruffle IFB feathers)? I heard someone the other day say that they were new evangelical but did not say how they came to that conclusion or give any details. I guess I am mostly wondering if they are sound doctrinally. If not, where are they in error?
Thanks,
Ricky
Thanks,
Ricky
I agree in principle, Bro. Linscott. Really I do.
For instance (and I hope this bunny trail isn’t too far off the main road), let’s deconstruct what we mean when we say ‘porn’. Does this include partial nudity and simulated sex that is in many PG13 & R-rated movies and television?Or does it only apply to full frontal and graphic sex? I mean, you can watch lesbian and homosexual relationships depicted between children (characters) on Glee and Pretty Little Liars- that’s regular network and cable television. Isn’t that sexually deviant entertainment?
So- do Christian colleges have a list of TV shows that students are/aren’t allowed to watch?
I think setting forth guidelines and expectations of moral behavior is important, and in a sense, every rule is based on an honor system, because any reasonably intelligent and motivated person can find a way around the rules if that’s what they really want to do.
But there are some behaviors that I think are very difficult to define- again, if you can’t draw the line, how do you tell people they’ve crossed it? It’s easy to say “No bumping and grinding”- but there’s plenty of room between the foxtrot and the lambada to engage in immoral physical contact. So a college admin has to decide what they mean when they say ‘dance’ and ‘inappropriate lyrics’ and ‘unhealthy environments’.
It isn’t that there shouldn’t be rules- I’m a total stick-in-the-mud myself- it’s just that I think the energy it takes to craft and enforce some rules is pretty much wasted when the lines can’t be drawn definitively or enforced adequately.
Cedarville is a fine university, as far as universities go. I’ve stopped calling it a Christian college many moons ago- after all, it’s in my neck of the woods, and my husband used to deliver equipment there nearly every week and he saw with his own eyes what passes for ‘Christian’ out there. So I’m not really disappointed as much as ambivalent. Or maybe cynical?
For instance (and I hope this bunny trail isn’t too far off the main road), let’s deconstruct what we mean when we say ‘porn’. Does this include partial nudity and simulated sex that is in many PG13 & R-rated movies and television?Or does it only apply to full frontal and graphic sex? I mean, you can watch lesbian and homosexual relationships depicted between children (characters) on Glee and Pretty Little Liars- that’s regular network and cable television. Isn’t that sexually deviant entertainment?
So- do Christian colleges have a list of TV shows that students are/aren’t allowed to watch?
I think setting forth guidelines and expectations of moral behavior is important, and in a sense, every rule is based on an honor system, because any reasonably intelligent and motivated person can find a way around the rules if that’s what they really want to do.
But there are some behaviors that I think are very difficult to define- again, if you can’t draw the line, how do you tell people they’ve crossed it? It’s easy to say “No bumping and grinding”- but there’s plenty of room between the foxtrot and the lambada to engage in immoral physical contact. So a college admin has to decide what they mean when they say ‘dance’ and ‘inappropriate lyrics’ and ‘unhealthy environments’.
It isn’t that there shouldn’t be rules- I’m a total stick-in-the-mud myself- it’s just that I think the energy it takes to craft and enforce some rules is pretty much wasted when the lines can’t be drawn definitively or enforced adequately.
Cedarville is a fine university, as far as universities go. I’ve stopped calling it a Christian college many moons ago- after all, it’s in my neck of the woods, and my husband used to deliver equipment there nearly every week and he saw with his own eyes what passes for ‘Christian’ out there. So I’m not really disappointed as much as ambivalent. Or maybe cynical?
[Susan R]They are considered a Christian college though, so I’m wondering what the reasons are that some (including you) would not consider them Christian. Do they not believe in the inerrancy of Scripture? Do they not believe in the virgin birth? Or is it just that they let girls wear jeans and they allow dancing? Why would you not consider them Christian? I have been there recently, but know very little about Cedarville.
Cedarville is a fine university, as far as universities go. I’ve stopped calling it a Christian college many moons ago- after all, it’s in my neck of the woods, and my husband used to deliver equipment there nearly every week and he saw with his own eyes what passes for ‘Christian’ out there. So I’m not really disappointed as much as ambivalent. Or maybe cynical?
Thanks,
Ricky
When girls are wearing shirts cut down to there, walking around with boy’s hands in the back pockets of their jeans, stopping occasionally to give each other a tonsillectomy, then yeah- I’m going to say it doesn’t look like a Christian college.
This thread hasn’t really been about CU’s doctrinal positions, but about rules of conduct. Institutions craft policies that they believe best provide the atmosphere they hope to achieve and the kinds of students that will help them achieve it.
My ‘argument’, if you will, is not about the presence of rules, but the ability to define those that are most important, those that can be enforced, and in a college setting- the ‘timing’. If a student reaches college age and they have already been to dances and proms, lost their purity, have an iPod full of music with immoral lyrics, they generally aren’t going to have an epiphany about Godly conduct at 18- they are just going to work around it.
Where we need to focus on holiness is in our churches, equipping parents to raise their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. I think that is why so many find rules against dancing ludicrous- no one cares about excellence of character, striving for holiness, or pursuing purity.
I probably sounds at this point like I’m contradicting myself. I know what I mean, I’m just not doing a good job of communicating it.
This thread hasn’t really been about CU’s doctrinal positions, but about rules of conduct. Institutions craft policies that they believe best provide the atmosphere they hope to achieve and the kinds of students that will help them achieve it.
My ‘argument’, if you will, is not about the presence of rules, but the ability to define those that are most important, those that can be enforced, and in a college setting- the ‘timing’. If a student reaches college age and they have already been to dances and proms, lost their purity, have an iPod full of music with immoral lyrics, they generally aren’t going to have an epiphany about Godly conduct at 18- they are just going to work around it.
Where we need to focus on holiness is in our churches, equipping parents to raise their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. I think that is why so many find rules against dancing ludicrous- no one cares about excellence of character, striving for holiness, or pursuing purity.
I probably sounds at this point like I’m contradicting myself. I know what I mean, I’m just not doing a good job of communicating it.
Okay, disclosure time. I’m a Cedarville alum, as is my hubby and #1 daughter and #1 son. Daughter #2 is on track to join the class of 2017. Nobody lost their faith, all serve actively in church, but we all wear jeans. (#2 son has taken up ballroom-dancing, but that’s a whole ‘nuther story)
Ricky: The doctrinal statement is http://www.cedarville.edu/About/Doctrinal-Statement.aspx] here . The student handbook is http://www.cedarville.edu/studentlife/handbook/handbook.cfm] here . Their Vision Statement reads:
Susan: If you read the handbook, you’ll see that the behaviors you mentioned are 2-demerit violations. Did your husband report the students he observed?
Ricky: The doctrinal statement is http://www.cedarville.edu/About/Doctrinal-Statement.aspx] here . The student handbook is http://www.cedarville.edu/studentlife/handbook/handbook.cfm] here . Their Vision Statement reads:
Cedarville University is a Christ-centered learning community equipping students for lifelong leadership and service through an education marked by excellence and grounded in biblical truth.
Susan: If you read the handbook, you’ll see that the behaviors you mentioned are 2-demerit violations. Did your husband report the students he observed?
Thanks for providing the links Audrey. I see they address the “dance” issue in detail .. I like the way they’ve put the handbook together - it EXPLAINS why the rules are in place..
[Audrey Cahilly] Susan: If you read the handbook, you’ll see that the behaviors you mentioned are 2-demerit violations. Did your husband report the students he observed?
No- he was there to deliver equipment, not police the student body. And since he was there to deliver equipment, staff members were right there the whole time. How about they do their job and he’ll do his.
Thank you Audrey.
Ricky
Ricky
Dancing apparently is good exercise according to “Diet Bites”
Did you guys know a person who is 105 lbs will burn 60 calories in 15 minutes? A person 170 lbs will burn 97 calories in 15 minutes. Baptist everywhere should take special attention to this last fact - A person 250 lbs will burn 143 calories in 15 minutes.
Holy Cow people….perhaps Baptists everywhere should start dancing! It may be that we’ve misunderstood Cedarville all together. They probably are just interested in the cardiovascular health of their students.
You know….I’m with Greg here. One can never be too careful as to the details of dancing, actually I suppose some could be too careful. Why not just dance in private - or at least with people without being un-holy with how you dance (ie - how you move), with whom you dance and with what you dance (what kind of music).
I think we should pause a bit more and see the wider view!
Straight Ahead!
jt
Did you guys know a person who is 105 lbs will burn 60 calories in 15 minutes? A person 170 lbs will burn 97 calories in 15 minutes. Baptist everywhere should take special attention to this last fact - A person 250 lbs will burn 143 calories in 15 minutes.
Holy Cow people….perhaps Baptists everywhere should start dancing! It may be that we’ve misunderstood Cedarville all together. They probably are just interested in the cardiovascular health of their students.
You know….I’m with Greg here. One can never be too careful as to the details of dancing, actually I suppose some could be too careful. Why not just dance in private - or at least with people without being un-holy with how you dance (ie - how you move), with whom you dance and with what you dance (what kind of music).
I think we should pause a bit more and see the wider view!
Straight Ahead!
jt
Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;
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