Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary: Caner out as Dean ... retained as faculty member
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/25/AR20100…
Caner, 43, has said that he was raised as a Muslim extremist [COLOR=red] in Turkey but that he converted to Christianity after moving to Ohio as a teenager in 1978. “Until I was 15 years old, I was in the Islamic youth jihad,” he said in a November 2001 sermon at First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Fla. “I was trained to do that which was done on 11 September, as were thousands of youth.” In 2002, he wrote “Inside Islam: An Insider’s Look at Muslim Life and Beliefs,” with his brother Emir, president of Truett-McConnell College, a Baptist school in Cleveland, Ga.
The Caner brothers’ book, for example, states they were born [COLOR=red] in Sweden , not Turkey, and spent most of their time with their non-Muslim mother, not their Muslim father, after the parents divorced in the United States. Records indicate that the family arrived in the United States in 1974, four years earlier than Ergun Caner has claimed.
his lies were most intentional as he repeated the same ones every time he gave his testimony.
CanJAmerican - my blog
CanJAmerican - my twitter
whitejumaycan - my youtube
Everything’s fine, God. I wasn’t hiding. By the way, like my fig leaves? I made them myself.
My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com
Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin
“Dr. Caner has made factual statements that are self-contradictory.”
Does the above statement = lie?
Does the above statement = lie?
[Jonathan Charles] “Dr. Caner has made factual statements that are self-contradictory.”A poorly constructed sentence unless they have gone post-modern on us! Caner made “statements of fact” that were contradictory. They were not, by definition, self-contradictory as either one stood by itself. But when compared with each other, they contradicted.
Does the above statement = lie?
The man is a liar and should be fired. How can he train ministerial students with this cloud over his head?
Edited for typos per poster’s request
Twitter: GodsLaw1 *** www.peterlaitres.net ***
“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.” - Galatians 2:21HCSB
I’d prefer we avoid calling folks “liars.” I guess I’m strongly biased toward the “benefit of the doubt” approach to things. The folks at Liberty did an investigation. Presumably they have access to more information than we do? I guess the reason that’s an accusation I’m extremely reluctant to make is that I personally hate it when people people accuse me of dishonesty when they think they see inconsistencies in my statements.
So I’ll pretty much bend over backwards every time to say “Isn’t there some way the person in question could have misremembered or mispoken etc.?”
(In any case, I don’t see how Liberty handles w/it’s faculty as being my problem.)
So I’ll pretty much bend over backwards every time to say “Isn’t there some way the person in question could have misremembered or mispoken etc.?”
(In any case, I don’t see how Liberty handles w/it’s faculty as being my problem.)
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
I agree we must be careful - but Caner DID lie, repeatedly, hundreds of times in preaching engagements, in his book and in his written bio at Liberty. That is lying and a liar. Why did Liberty expunge messages? Christians need to carefully use biblical terminology. He was either trained as terrorist at age fifteen, or he wasn’t. He says he was, but the facts are that he wasn’t even in Turkey and wasn’t trained as a terrorist. What else can we call him?
It is our problem as we are Christians and when a Christian “celebrity” who has been heavily promoted has publicly lied about his past, it hurts the cause and testimony of our Lord Jesus when it is swept under the run.
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3861
It is our problem as we are Christians and when a Christian “celebrity” who has been heavily promoted has publicly lied about his past, it hurts the cause and testimony of our Lord Jesus when it is swept under the run.
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3861
Twitter: GodsLaw1 *** www.peterlaitres.net ***
“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.” - Galatians 2:21HCSB
Caner is guilty of ‘exaggerating’ and ‘stretching the truth’ on more than one occasion and on more than one subject. He has also claimed to have debated numerous leaders of various world religions, which proof is wanting. As many of these ‘misstatements’ were made from pulpits during preaching, I wonder if his preaching license should be revoked.
[Aaron Blumer]It’s only a problem if you care about the reputation of Liberty University or Christianity. For me, it’s a little bit #1 and a lot #2. I have friends at Liberty, and they’ve told me that these “statements” have been quite integral to Caner’s self-representation and self-promotion during his preaching.
(In any case, I don’t see how Liberty handles w/it’s faculty as being my problem.)
My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com
Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/mayweb-only/28-11.0.html
A couple of relevant sections
A couple of relevant sections
Foes want Caner to admit to what they label as exaggerations and lies, including claims such as:AND
* Growing up in Turkey, when he actually grew up in Ohio.
* Being raised in a devout Muslim home, rather than a nominal one.
* Having been involved in Islamic jihad.
* Having debated dozens of Muslims about the Islamic faith, although there is no video or audio evidence.
Elmer Towns, co-founder of Liberty University and dean of the School of Religion, says [red] there will be no official reprimand or demotion of Ergun Caner. Towns, who had a hand in hiring Caner, says the Liberty board has held an inquiry and directors are satisfied that Caner has done nothing theologically inappropriate.
“It’s not an ethical issue, it’s not a moral issue,” Towns told Christianity Today on April 27. “We give faculty a certain amount of theological leverage. The arguments of the bloggers would not stand up in court.”
Twitter: GodsLaw1 *** www.peterlaitres.net ***
“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.” - Galatians 2:21HCSB
I had never heard of this person before this article. Who is he? Is he traveling in our circles? Someone said something about a book he wrote. Where is he advertising it? What is it about?
I’m really confused about Liberty’s claims to be a Southern Baptist school, a BBF school or both (how is that possible). Does much surprise you all these days? From what I’ve seen on you tube with Liberty students, I’m really not too surprised at anything. No, I’m surprised that they shipped a student for picking up his roommate who had been drinking and not telling on him. (as mentioned in the comments in the above link). That surprises me. I’d figure that they’d take a pretty generous stand on that issue. Shrug.
Actually by the comments in the link, the people commenting act like lying is a regular part of their lives, or that it is “no big deal” since everyone has done it. Hmmm.
I’m really confused about Liberty’s claims to be a Southern Baptist school, a BBF school or both (how is that possible). Does much surprise you all these days? From what I’ve seen on you tube with Liberty students, I’m really not too surprised at anything. No, I’m surprised that they shipped a student for picking up his roommate who had been drinking and not telling on him. (as mentioned in the comments in the above link). That surprises me. I’d figure that they’d take a pretty generous stand on that issue. Shrug.
Actually by the comments in the link, the people commenting act like lying is a regular part of their lives, or that it is “no big deal” since everyone has done it. Hmmm.
Becky,
Turretin Fan has more information about Ergun Caner than anyone wants to know, but a good place to start is this post titled http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2010/05/ergun-caner-index.html Ergun Caner Index .
A little background - Caner was a professor in Dallas at http://www.criswell.edu/ Criswell College . After 09/11 he and one of his 2 brothers (Emir) came to prominence as self-proclaimed “former devout Muslims.” That opened the door for him to speak in many churches and many other places (and he is a very charismatic speaker). His personal testimony (which was a large part of his celebrity) was that he was born and raised in Muslim countries, trained in Jihad, learned about America from TV, came to America as a teen, got saved, debated many people from many faiths, etc. He came to the attention of Jerry Falwell and has been the President of Liberty Seminary for a few years.
BUT, most of his testimony is a lie. The evidence shows that he came to America before he was 4 years old, which discredits a major portion of his testimony, and there is no evidence that he debated anyone, unless he is counting conversations with people as debates. A Muslim started pointing out his lies using video and audio in which he tells contradicting stories. That led to some Christians doing some research to check his facts and finding out that he has lied repeatedly to many congregations.
Unfortunately Liberty and others have benefited by his celebrity and they are unwilling to call him out. Enrollment has increased at the seminary during his administration and he apparently is too important to fail (shades of Jack Hyles!)
Turretin Fan has more information about Ergun Caner than anyone wants to know, but a good place to start is this post titled http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2010/05/ergun-caner-index.html Ergun Caner Index .
A little background - Caner was a professor in Dallas at http://www.criswell.edu/ Criswell College . After 09/11 he and one of his 2 brothers (Emir) came to prominence as self-proclaimed “former devout Muslims.” That opened the door for him to speak in many churches and many other places (and he is a very charismatic speaker). His personal testimony (which was a large part of his celebrity) was that he was born and raised in Muslim countries, trained in Jihad, learned about America from TV, came to America as a teen, got saved, debated many people from many faiths, etc. He came to the attention of Jerry Falwell and has been the President of Liberty Seminary for a few years.
BUT, most of his testimony is a lie. The evidence shows that he came to America before he was 4 years old, which discredits a major portion of his testimony, and there is no evidence that he debated anyone, unless he is counting conversations with people as debates. A Muslim started pointing out his lies using video and audio in which he tells contradicting stories. That led to some Christians doing some research to check his facts and finding out that he has lied repeatedly to many congregations.
Unfortunately Liberty and others have benefited by his celebrity and they are unwilling to call him out. Enrollment has increased at the seminary during his administration and he apparently is too important to fail (shades of Jack Hyles!)
CanJAmerican - my blog
CanJAmerican - my twitter
whitejumaycan - my youtube
[JohnBrian] Becky,This is a very bad approach. It results in putting a man above God, at least as to compliance with God’s laws, or Liberty University is not putting money ahead of the need to live a Christian life.
Unfortunately Liberty and others have benefited by his celebrity and they are unwilling to call him out. Enrollment has increased at the seminary during his administration and he apparently is too important to fail (shades of Jack Hyles!)
I have several difficulties with this situation:
1) It ignores a direct command from Christ in Mt 5:37
2) How can you teach Christians (especially the Liberty student body) that honesty is import when the dishonest actions of a ‘Christian’ in a position of authority are shrugged of?
3) This is just another point for the secular public use and say ‘the Christian religion is full of hypocrites’.
4) The secular public extends this cynicism by feeling that the Christians are only out to ‘get ahead’ regardless of the means used to reach that end.
5) Christians, or those attempting to live in the faith, start wondering why they cannot ‘cut corners’ in their life to ‘get ahead’.
My personal opinion is that a Christian must attempt to live as Christ and follow the commandments as much as possible. If I do not do this then I am becoming a stumbling block for others who might be seeking Christ, or have found Christ and are learning. An institution which claims to represent Christ should not allow something like this to continue.
http://thelightheartedcalvinist.com/2010/06/28/attn-liberty-university-…
“factual statements that are self-contradictory” …
“factual statements that are self-contradictory” …
is logical nonsense. “Facts” that contradict themselves are no facts at all.
Of course, if the PHIL 210 class teaches that facts can contradict themselves, perhaps a logic class at another institution would be in order.
Discussion